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Heroic Knight
 
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| SO you have an event where there's no ritual site, IC thats perfectly acceptable i wouldnt have an event with one there as it will keep the undead\fallen away. But OOC it's kinda a pain the awakened races undead fallen eidolon etc will have major problems actualy playing their character. For instance as an example, an undead that dies can't come back even if their necromancers there, you have a character with alot of draw backs ie not able to learn anything no money no starting resouces all for the benefit of being essentialy immortal, but you find you can't play any of the advantages you do have becasue there's no ritual site at the event and get stuck playing a secondary for the rest of the event where you cant instigate roleplay. Now haveing the ritual site would mean all the spell rituals could be used all the awakened have no more trouble, and for RP purposes it's fantastic haveing one at the event, but from an IC point of view you dont want one there, by not haveing one there your essentialy makeing races either impossible to play or at the leaset very difficult to play. What are peoples thought's on this ? i've heard several side's to this but id like more extrapolation and varying opinions.
Trying to learn how to think before speaking since 1981 Now i must learn the art of thinking before typing..... (it may be a while)
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Champion
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A couple of things. Firstly, Apostrophes! Get it right - it's not hard.
Secondly, I agree with you on the IC decision - if I was hosting I wouldn't have one either, to keep the fallen and undead away. This is an IC decision in a player-lead system; if it causes characters to be "unplayable", then so be it. In this respect it's little different from making a group "unplayable" at an event by stating in the laws you'll kill them on sight. Go for it, if you have an IC reason to.
Lastly, lack of a ritual site needn't inhibit Loyal Idle Ones. It's entirely possible to get them to come back without one, as I saw demonstrated at Foundation. That's all I will say, though, for fear of breaking FOIP.
Ias
Maelstrom: Was: JB, International Man of Mystery
Now: Tom Steele, "Undead, ma'am? No, ma'am"
DUTT: Was: Cranstan
Now: Doktor Weissmann, Surgeon-General
RL: Ias
I was going to run for parliament, because I want to make the world a better place, but I ran into some old friends and went out for a beer instead.
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Champion
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| IC and OOC I was disappointed that there was no ritual site at this event. Mostly because I and some friends were hoping to do some rituals! I can see why those who oppose Demons/Undead would host away from one, but I personally believe that the benefits outweigh the flaws. After all, it's fairly well known by now that the best (if not only) way to destroy your enemies is 'in the face' at the religious festivals. If you prevent them from attending, you become unable to destroy them. It's a no-brainer as far as I am concerned. Saying that, there was little Demon activity this event. Some people could see this as a good thing. Most of the demon-hunters I spoke to were a little upset however, because if there are no Demons there, they can't fight them!
Moderator - not official without blue hat.
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Champion
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I think its a perfectly feasable method of ensuring laws are obeyed. It does indeed make life harder for fallen and undead and if thats what you want thats great.
In terms of it being shit OOC I don't think that should be an issue. If my character thinks that pissing off the big groups of Necro/ fallen haters is a bad idea then I ain't gonna do it.
Outcast: Ciniath, Predani Berzerker
Maelstrom: Nashoba Skah
Odyssey: Sikar'Ba'al Hannon, Hannon Souk, Carthage.
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Champion
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Ah... this issue, it’s something I was considering starting a post about myself. And I should be sending a offical feedback on the issue.
IC from Varas' position as "Teh Daemon Hunter", lack of a Ritual site makes my job far easier, indeed I've all but suggested it to several colonies.
Hell, propaganda aside for most colonies the prospect of Immortal horrors *not* being there and shonky bastards wreaking magical havoc probably far outweighs any benefits of having one.
(Saying that, Varas is also now convinced that without the Fallen, the Faithful will turn upon themselves...)
OC,
I think the lack of Ritual site is a very bad thing, and pretty much kills alot of the Game for many players, the Fallen and Undead spring to mind (yes, not necessarily and this is bordering on FOIP), however it also screws over any Ritual spell caster as well.
It stops the “Holy War” seeming like “a Heroic War between the Forces of Light vs the Forces of Darkness” and more like the Daemon Hunters and the Loyal jumping up and down then pissing on the daemons after we find them drunk in a ditch somewhere.
It kinda makes our achievements feel hollow as well since I know that the daemons haven’t had their asses kicked cus we kicked them, but because of pretty much OC mechanical issues.
I’m friends with a lot of the fallen players, and it’s really quite frustrating hearing how their events weren’t what they should have been cus they had to play Secondaries for half of it (and this is from players who *really* made an effort with their disguises etc)
I have some idea of how hard it is to play a Fallen and I think Flail and co have done so damn well for what’s stacked against them, and they REALLY don’t need any more problems.
Some of my character enemies have simply retired out of frustration and that’s a damn shame since they were great characters.
As for Magical Ritualists… yes they do instead have a bit of incentive to go out there and find and hire a ritual site over DT… but this isn’t as fun (IMO) as sneaking to the ritual site yourself and performing one under the cover of darkness.
Originally I believe Hosts where *required* to have ritual
I know there is the counter argument that since Maelstrom is player led, then fundamentally it should be a player made choice to host a festival near a site or not, however I think Ritual sites are too important to so much of the game for them not to be there.
Frankly if PD simply say "The sheer number of Eidolons, Awakened and powerful
Magic users in such a small area forces one to appear" it would make enough sense for me.
So yes.
RITUAL SITES NEED TO BE THERE!
Maelstrom: Khaniel, Liberated Angel of Enlightenment
RL: Tom
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Heroic Knight
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IasusA couple of things. Firstly, Apostrophes! Get it right - it's not hard. Dude, i try my best, the pen may be mightier than the sword but it still takes lot's of practice, and not everyones a blade master.
Iasus
Secondly, I agree with you on the IC decision - if I was hosting I wouldn't have one either, to keep the fallen and undead away. This is an IC decision in a player-lead system; if it causes characters to be "unplayable", then so be it. In this respect it's little different from making a group "unplayable" at an event by stating in the laws you'll kill them on sight. Go for it, if you have an IC reason to. Exactly.
Iasus
Lastly, lack of a ritual site needn't inhibit Loyal Idle Ones. It's entirely possible to get them to come back without one, as I saw demonstrated at Foundation. That's all I will say, though, for fear of breaking FOIP.
Ias Yea there was alot of this at previouse events and i was led to believe that loyals needed a ritual site to appear, but obviously not.
Illithidbix
(Saying that, Varas is also now convinced that without the Fallen, the Faithful will turn upon themselves...) Hmmm faithful civil war  Illithidbix OC,
I think the lack of Ritual site is a very bad thing, and pretty much kills alot of the Game for many players, the Fallen and Undead spring to mind (yes, not necessarily and this is bordering on FOIP), however it also screws over any Ritual spell caster as well. Agree with this totaly, but where do you draw the line between IC and OOC decisions ? OCC we should have one becasue it will make fantastic RP and give more depth to the game, IC no way in hell are haveing one it's too much of a risk.
Illithidbix
Some of my character enemies have simply retired out of frustration and that’s a damn shame since they were great characters. Yea this can be a problem as the races and characters most affected by this give alot of other character's and players somethning to do at the events, if all their enemies were just no longer there it would be a very boreing event for them.
Illithidbix
As for Magical Ritualists… yes they do instead have a bit of incentive to go out there and find and hire a ritual site over DT… but this isn’t as fun (IMO) as sneaking to the ritual site yourself and performing one under the cover of darkness. Gotta admit commando rituals are alot of fun, the entire thing is made fun by the thought of OMG we're gonna get caught and hung.
Illithidbix Originally I believe Hosts where *required* to have ritual I know there is the counter argument that since Maelstrom is player led, then fundamentally it should be a player made choice to host a festival near a site or not, however I think Ritual sites are too important to so much of the game for them not to be there. Frankly if PD simply say "The sheer number of Eidolons, Awakened and powerful
Magic users in such a small area forces one to appear" it would make enough sense for me.
So yes.
RITUAL SITES NEED TO BE THERE!
I thought they were as well, the way it was explained to me was that as large groups of people gather the site appears, we'll just have to wait and see at the next event.
Trying to learn how to think before speaking since 1981 Now i must learn the art of thinking before typing..... (it may be a while)
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Champion
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| We had one at our event, despite being worried about fallen and undead. Frankly Im of the opinion that having a ritual site is in the interest of a fun event for all involved. Its all about making play and if that means people like Fallen etc turning up so be it. IC of course I may have decided to simply move the event elsewhere where there wasnt one... There is a distinct conflict between IC and OC agendas in that respect, at least for me, I imagine others will have the same dilemna. Was there one at Shenanigans I dont even remember. I must admit one of our guys having just finished learning magic was disappointed he couldnt try a ritual. As for a lack of ritual circle ending play, I believe FOIP applies here 
--------------------------------------------If the Gods didnt want us to eat people, then why are they made out of meat?Grumf Kikuto - United Tribes of New BantustanSir Nathaniel Holt - The Fallen
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Prodigal
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Iasus (7/27/2006)
Secondly, I agree with you on the IC decision - if I was hosting I wouldn't have one either, to keep the fallen and undead away. This is an IC decision in a player-lead system; if it causes characters to be "unplayable", then so be it. In this respect it's little different from making a group "unplayable" at an event by stating in the laws you'll kill them on sight. Go for it, if you have an IC reason to. I disagree. There's nothing wrong with killing or permanently enslaving characters- the players can just get new characters and go off and do something interesting. Preventing characters from showing up at all is a very different thing- that forces the player to spend the entire event playing a secondary, which is potentially a total waste of time. Look at it this way- if an event was hosted by some people who really, really hated the DNF, which would you prefer- to have the whole group massacred on Friday night (interesting) or to be told that the hosts have erected a magical anti-Smith barrier which prevents any of your characters from going within fifty miles of the site (dull). What if everyone then decides this is a brilliant idea and so arranges for an anti-Smith barrier to be erected around every future festival site, for ever? Restricting someone's IC choices for OOC reasons is a bad thing, but I think it's a necessary evil in this case. IC, there's no reason why you shouldn't spend all event plotting to make sure that all your allies decide to spend the next solstice at a special festival which takes place on the other side of the continent to the event which all the other characters will be attending. OOC, the logistics of trying to run two simultaneous but separate events in different parts of the site would be a nightmare, so we don't try to do it.
WARNING: the information above may have been subjected to dangerously high levels of ignorance.
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Champion
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nesciomancer (7/27/2006)different thing- that forces the player to spend the entire event playing a secondary, which is potentially a totally waste of time. Their money too potentially... Makes me glad Im an ordinary alive, non-eidelon type. Your anti-smith barrier is a good example, it is a form of OC discrimination in a way.
--------------------------------------------If the Gods didnt want us to eat people, then why are they made out of meat?Grumf Kikuto - United Tribes of New BantustanSir Nathaniel Holt - The Fallen
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Champion
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I think this might change once people realise the advantages of having a ritual site at an event, which I can't tell you about but as any magic user in play and there are some pretty hefty ones.
Maelstrom - Maximillian Lindberg
"Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: Why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: Why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired."
Cave Johnson - CEO Aperture Science
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