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Wag
 
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DarkMerchant (7/15/2008)
And so I guess all those customers out there who dont visit forums may seem to have good reason.
What exactly did you think was going to happen if you turned up on a forum and said that people on forums argue too much? Did you really think that everyone would immediately agree with you, just because you phrased it in such a way that dissent would seem ironic? I mean, really?
As to being an unhappy customer, please PM me your "real name" and I can rememdy that quite quickly, I'd hate to upset my customers by misrepresenting them,but then again, I cant say I recall having spoken to you, where as I can say I have spoken to other members of this board.
Fine by me, it's in my sig, I should be in your DB somewhere. I dimly remember buying some makeup from you at some point.
Why does it always boil down to people having to defend themselves or their opinions...
Why should you not have to if you're wrong? Why does everyone have to agree with what you say just because it's your opinion?
You do the damage, you figure out who it effects.... you have 100% clearly demonstrated, why forums dont have 10's of thousands of members...
Er, because most people post on their local boards? Which is kind of what I've been saying all along?
There's little point in continuing at this juncture, you're quite right. I'm not going to simply accept that your opinion is correct - but it's nice of you to admit that it's yours instead of projecting it onto your customers, that's a huge step forward.
PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
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Wag
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Twigletbeast (7/15/2008)
Sadly the disadvantages also need to be considered. Firstly, just because people dont post, does not mean that they dont look and come to their own opinions about topics and the posters.
Which is exactly what I said a couple of pages back, thank you.
Sadly every forum has their own fair share of antagonists and although the idea of everyone being entitled to an opinion is a great one, it doesnt always work in practice. People will often think - as I have - 'I'm not going to post cos I know I'll get shouted down' There are many many topics I'd like to discuss and questions I'd like to ask (on various forums) but dont as the likely hassle that comes with it is just to much hard work.
This is actually a source of considerable irritation to me personally. I'd love for there to be more discussion, more dissenting viewpoints on here. The forced consensus on certain topics drives me up the flipping wall. But you need to be very careful about openly stating that the "reason people don't post" is the arguments, or the consensus, as there really isn't any evidence of that beyond a few anecdotal quotes. I don't need to tell you that people often don't mean exactly what they say, right?
So - in theory Forums can be great and are a useful tool, but they can also be scary, hostile places too.
They're only hostile if you are out to cause arguments. It's remarkably easy to post for years without ever causing so much as a ripple - I should know, I did exactly that at Pagga, which made this place look "beanbag", as the Yanks would say.
PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
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Initiate
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chalicier (7/15/2008)This is actually a source of considerable irritation to me personally. I'd love for there to be more discussion, more dissenting viewpoints on here. The forced consensus on certain topics drives me up the flipping wall. But you need to be very careful about openly stating that the "reason people don't post" is the arguments Indeed - I cant claim that NO ONE posts cause of the agruments - hence why I said 'people tend to think...' but I can't imagine I'm the only person that feels intimidated...
chalicier (7/15/2008)They're only hostile if you are out to cause arguments. It's remarkably easy to post for years without ever causing so much as a ripple - I should know, I did exactly that at Pagga, which made this place look "beanbag", as the Yanks would say. Yes - I know. I have posted for many many years on other forums and I know what Pagga was like. Althought it raises an interesting question (and this isnt directed at you personally - it's just an observation) What's different between that forum and this to mean that there are so many, as you say, 'ripples'? What's changed?
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Champion
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| Well I'm definitely of the opinion that internet advertising for LRP games/clubs attracts new players. My evidence of this fact is purely anecdotal....as myself and a number of friends have been attracted to systems PURELY via the internet. I went to Shards for the first time as someone liked the look of it online and decided to bring a group of 15 or so of us to an event. I'm heading to Kingdoms next month because my brother said "hey, this looks like fun, I saw it posted on rule 7...lets try it out". I think word of mouth is a FAR stronger advertiser though but internet serves well to break into groups that wouldn't have otherwise heard of you. When I see a new systems web site I check it out, weigh up cost, distance, appeal etc and make a decision as to whether or not to try it out. I've also noticed when people have posted up about their new systems people reply and give feedback on whether they are thinking of trying out the new game. I'm sure Herofest picked up a number of players this way (correct me if I'm wrong Gable). Also Flannel, I disagree with your statement that if you don't like it F!@£ off. Whilst rule 7 forums don't ban swearing it does encourage its use to be used in moderation and the poster should give thought to whether it will offend anyone. The poster is encouraged in the guidelines to apologise if they give offence (not just through swearing). If you read the Rule 7 guidelines they do encourage active and open debate and warn those posting in the muggers alley. They also make it encourage peoeple to report to moderators when they feel bullied and intimidated. It clearly indicates that swearing etc can lead to people feeling this way. I am playing devils advocate here as I dont have a problem with swearing etc on forums but I do advoacte thinking on whether someone might be offended by your post before posting it. We are here to engage in active and open debate. If what your posting offends someone I'm not saying don't post it, just that if it is possible to make a point without causing offence surely that is the way forward, otherwise you are discouraging people from engaging in debate who might have useful points to add to the debate. Anyways, I thought I'd chip in, Matt J
If I wanted to listen to an arsehole, I'd fart!
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Wag
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Twigletbeast (7/15/2008)
Yes - I know. I have posted for many many years on other forums and I know what Pagga was like.Althought it raises an interesting question (and this isnt directed at you personally - it's just an observation) What's different between that forum and this to mean that there are so many, as you say, 'ripples'? What's changed?
Nothing, there were just as many ripples back then - you've simply decided to notice them now. Rule7 if anything has fewer blazing flamewars, the last few weeks' endless iterations of the same argument notwithstanding.
I didn't make ripples back then simply because I refused to post my opinions in certain circumstances. I don't self-moderate like that now. It would be really easy to do so again, but I don't. Why? Well, that's an entirely different topic.
edit - DM - could you clear your PM box please? I can't reply.
PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
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Overlord
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Firstly, thank you DarkMerchant for starting this thread. It does raise a real issue, because just like many people, I hear a lot of people mention that they don't come to Rule7 because its a bit of a bear pit - and it is really.
That said, many innovative and interesting ideas can be borne from arguments and I don't think this forum is an exception to that, particularly as - in my view - it represents a cross section of an innovative hobby.
However, if we acknowledge we're posting to the gallery a lot of the time, this works two ways. Firstly, being opinionated and forthright has its one set of baggage - which many of us carry around wherver we go in the hobby. Secondly, it also requires you to be accurate, which a lot of the time people aren't. As a professional, I don't take inaccurate statements very well. I point out the inaccuaracies and send the stuff back. On 7 I do my best to kerb my critical instincts a lot of the time. Opinion is the life blood of any discussion forum, unsubstantiated opinion is it's majority. If you want sceptical people to believe what you're saying or doing, you need to do back up those opinions. More often than not, people don't do that. To some, it isn't offensive to ask where people drew their conclusions from and to be sceptical of those conclusions when you can't see the raw data. We have a lot of very intelligent users from a raft of differing professions and with a raft of LRP experience who are used to discussing things intelligently and have developed an unerring habit of picking at those pesking nits. 
I think - somewhat unsubstantiately - that we get a fair amount of this kind of criticism on here and it is intimidating to new users at times. However it can also encourage some really well informed discussion. I do feel as a poster a responsibility to at least give people the benefit of the doubt when I can. As an admin, I try to stick to the rules we have outlined. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don't so much, but then, I'm only human.
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Champion
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Just to add the other side of this, if this forum was all happy flowery and dull i wouldntt bother reading it, the open rough and tumble debate keep me amused, so i read and post. I sometimes check out LRP alliance, but find it a bit to bland and friendly to amuse me during the day at work, so i find it nice here
www.mandalastudios.co.uk www.kangena.co.uk RL - Mark (Coventry)
CP - Urtsi (Ael) [Ex Head Weapons Checker/ Ref]
Mandala - Wookie (Ref/ Props)
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Dark Secrets - Philip Stanley (Tech Assistant)
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Overlord
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We also have that old perennial of people not really representing their own views accuarately, or other people reading something else into those views that they didn't necessarily intend.
I think the posting guidelines don't get read enough. Either that, or no-one appreciates my sense of humour...
http://forums.rule7.co.uk/Topic96-55-1.aspx
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