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Overlord
 
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Moved to Mugger's Alley.
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Knight
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Marios (7/17/2006)
Lots of unsubstantiated mud-flinging on both sides, but this jumped out at me:"If they are not a terrorist organization, then the fact that they hold 23 out of 128 seats in the Lebanese government, makes this an act of war on Lebanon’s part."Surely you'd need to be a majority party before you can do things like declare war (or be seen to declare war) on people? What fraction of the Northern Ireland vote went to Sinn Fein? I'm not saying that Northern Ireland is the same, but it's the nearest analogue in this part of the world.
Yeah bit messy of me that. The two statements are really divorced of each other i guess.
The point i was trying to make was "If they are not terrorists what are they?"
p.s. what the hell is with this quote system?
I do try and spell things right...
Dark Millenium: Unofficial Larp based on Games Workshop's Warhammer 40,000.
"MADE OF SOLID MING"
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Wag
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Yeah bit messy of me that. The two statements are really divorced of each other i guess.The point i was trying to make was "If they are not terrorists what are they?"
Chechens? The reason why nations normally either occupy an area or leave it sovereign?
I think this is why nations have a stake in supporting other nations - I think this is why nations, having invaded eachother, reconstruct them on the way out and leave them enough territory and resources to maintain themselves. Crushing a state so that it can't oppose you seems like a really good idea but if you're not going to completely occupy it all you've is create a large number of angry people. The point of democracy isn't that it's noble and great, but that it presents channels for social tensions to relieve themselves through short of bloodshed. British people who are angry about terrorists can join the security services and the army.
Palestinians aren't allowed an (?unshackled?) army, so instead of serving in the army they serve in a paramilitary. Lots of complaints about Palestinians fighting via suicide bombs - but I'd bet they'd much rather fight with tanks and fighter jets if they could. It's a bit silly to be surprised about suicide bombings/terrorism - they have occurred in every area and every time where people have felt that they can't effect the political system.
Even nations that despise eachother need to support eachother's existence - break the nation and there's no longer one person who you can make deals with. Accepting that, the irony is that of all the nations bordering 'Palestine', Israel had the most to gain from a (moderately) strong Palestinian state. Unfortunately, it's a difficult one to sell to the people - (some) Palestinians hit us - we counterattack by supporting and strengthening the Palestinian state ...
As for Lebanon, I know almost nothing and haven't really been following this, so I'm looking forward to a well-argued rational debate where both sides lay out their case in the clear understanding that the real world is more Machiavellian than Manichean. Inform me.
p.s. what the hell is with this quote system?
It's broken and unfortunately some people are touting a fucked quote system as a good thing - perhaps there should be some sort of poll (or perhaps people who like quotes use them and those who don't don't or is that all too liberal?)
http://forums.rule7.co.uk/Topic4735-30-1.aspx
Marios
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Heroic Knight
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Archangel (7/17/2006)
As for blowing up the UN base, you’re quite right. Chances are it probably wasn't a target.
On the other hand...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ussliberty.html
Costume hippy, live and let live, peace and love for all, man!
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Knight
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Lol have you read that site?
They blame israel for pretty much every conspiracy from stone henge to alien abductions!
Ok an exaggeration but still its rediculous.
I do try and spell things right...
Dark Millenium: Unofficial Larp based on Games Workshop's Warhammer 40,000.
"MADE OF SOLID MING"
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Heroic Knight
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| At the same time the BBC makes no mention of the fact that the kidnapping of the Israeli soldier that kicked all this off was in response to the kidnapping of a civilian doctor and his son by Israeli military. If you ask me, it's 6 to one and 1/2 a dozen to the other in terms of the way that the BBC report it. The worst thing that you can accuse them of is inconsistency, or incomplete research.
_________________________________________________________________ The nature of man is the same as the nature of a wolf and the same as the nature of an ox?
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Heroic Knight
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KatieRennie (7/17/2006)
Flannel (7/17/2006)
I was trying to draw attention that the Government of the Lebanon is not Hezbollah. Which was implied in Archangels original post.Whilst I feel (very strongly) that the Israeli government have massively over-reacted, and I feel the BBC coverage has been balanced and fair, I also feel that the dividing line between the Lebanese government and Hezbollah isn't nearly as clear as I'd like it to be - 2 of the government ministers are openly members of Hezbollah, aren't they? I think there are more than 2 now. Since the media campaign last year to get Syria to withdraw from Lebanon, (which Hezbollah was against), they have been really successful in elections. This is because, while they are openly against 'the occupation' they also commit large amounts of resources to hospitals, schools and aid, which governments often fail to provide. The same is true of Hamas. A vote for Hamas may be a vote against Israel, but it could also be a vote against corruption, a vote for jobs, or a vote for someone who doesn't sell you out for personal power (or at least hasn't done so, yet.)
_________________________________________________________________ The nature of man is the same as the nature of a wolf and the same as the nature of an ox?
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Heroic Knight
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Archangel (7/17/2006)
In Iran they have imposed exactly the same sanctions on "the people of the book" as Hitler did to non-Christians pre WW2.
This is not true. The report that you are referring to was retracted and apologised for a few days after publication, after the interviewee was revealed to have extensive neocon connections and a vested interest in 'regime (ex)change'. However, by that time the 'Saddam was behind 9/11' effect was in full swing, as you are aptly demonstrating... The original report stated that Jews would have to wear yellow stars, Christians red stars (Why not crosses? Hmmm...) and Zoroastrians would wear blue stars. I have spoken to a colleague who is Iranian, and who's father is a Zoroastrian still living in Iran, and, well, it's bollocks.
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The nature of man is the same as the nature of a wolf and the same as the nature of an ox?
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Knight
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