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Champion
 
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When I first came to my very first larp event, I was brought there by my boyfriend and he helped me to play a healer. This meant that I was called a 'healer girlfriend'.
I enjoyed the game much more than he appeared to do. I went on to play a lot more different systems without him, and have since been involved in running far more games than he's ever even played, so I was not exactly thrilled to be given a label that implied not only 'unwilling larper' but also 'bad larper'.
Not long after shaking the 'healer girlfriend' label, I was called a 'ballgowner', a different dismissive sexist term (and before you claim it's not sexist, I want to see a picture of a man larping in a ballgown please  ). This was a term that seemed to suggest that ladies who avoided active involvement in combat were therefore playing a less important game than Real Men who fought battles and things...
I find both of these terms offensive since they are clearly used to categorise and belittle female involvement in larp. If you don't think they are offensive it's probably because you've never been called either; in which case you are fortunate in your choice of larp system, or more probably, male.
Internet Redcap: Don't make me put the hat on
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Prodigal
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Ballgowner is worse IMO, because it implies that the lady in question is doing no more than playing 'dressing up'.
_____________________________________________________It is not a competition. It is a web forum.
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Champion
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Matt Pennington (6/25/2008)
The phrase becomes an image/meaning, that becomes a stereotype and eventually a prejudice - a pre-judgement, in which women's contribution is seen through the lens of the assumption that they act like Ian's list or are likely to act that way.
Er... Earth calling Matt Pennington! Could you get back into orbit, please? And don`t do that deep space shit until we`ve installed the brain supporting hardware?
As long as there are women who do make an effort (and an impression) I really can`t see that happening.Matt Pennington (6/25/2008)
As Helen pointed out, it's not the word itself, it's the usage, the social context, the assumptions and the prejudice that all comes neatly wrapped up with the word.
I really think you`re reading way to much in it. I think I`m clear on the usage. But social context? And I really don`t feel that there are any assumptions and prejudices involved, except for the prejudice that players at an event ought to be open for interaction, and the assumption that whoever you`re talking to agrees on that.Matt Pennington (6/25/2008)
I feel confident stating that most people's experience is that gender is sometimes the basis for dismissal with women but not with men.
It must be so nice for you to belong to a majority. So let me get this straight: Men who go to events to get pissed when they might be roleplaying get dismissed because they get pissed when they might be roleplaying but not because they`re men, and women who go to events to cling to the boyfriend when they might be roleplaying are dismissed because they`re women and not because they cling to the boyfriend when they might be roleplaying? That`s a bit biased, isn`t it? In fact, I`d say it`s a totally screwed perspective.Matt Pennington (6/25/2008)
Does it? How does it say that?
It does because the misogynistic arse twats (f/m) that I hang out with on events wouldn`t silently suffer the same behaviour in men anymore than in women. My confidence in them isn`t really shaken by your suggestion that they would.Matt Pennington (6/25/2008)
Ok. To me this is a bit like saying "Nigger" isn't a racist term.
Girlfriend and boyfriend are freely exchangeable, it`s not pinned down to one sex. Oh heck, it`s your language! Educate me. Do people at your events go about purposefully referring to their chosen mates as 'better half' or 'significant other' or other gender neutral terms out of fear of offending people by the implication of being more attracted to one sex-gender combination than to others, or even offending their chosen partner?
"Girlfriend? Girlfriend? I`m a full grown woman, I`ll have you know!"/"Oy! Who`re you calling 'boy'?"
I suppose at your end of the stratosphere 'boyfriend' is both sexist and racist?Matt Pennington (6/25/2008)
The site of a lot of men dismissing women saying "this pisses me off" by saying "women don't get dismissed in LRP" appeals in the same sort of comic way that the goose stepping musical nazis in The Producers are funny. Having a phrase that you can use to dismiss women's contribution to LRP seems like a good way to offend to me.
Could you please try not to put words in my mouth? It`s bad enough you keep twisting the ones I did utter.
I didn`t find The Producers particularly funny, certainly not the goose stepping musical nazis. If you ever find a phrase that I can use to dismiss women`s contribution to LRP, let me know. I`ll save it just in case I`d ever want to offend you. (I don`t think I would have any other use for it.) In the meantime, we`re discussing a word that refers to the non-contribution, in fact, the very noninvolvement of significant others - usually girlfriends, but potentially boyfriends - who tag along to a LRP because they couldn`t let their better halves alone in a field full of scantily clad barbarians and/or frocked up lounge lizards, or any such reasons as they might have.Matt Pennington (6/25/2008)
You identify a set of non-optimal behaviour (Ian's post is an excellent list) and we classify this as "healer girlfriend" syndrome because statistically there is a perceived overlap between the people with the unpleasant behaviour and healing and being another player's girlfriend. Once you have the label however the prejudice spreads it's nasty wings and takes flight and suddenly women everywhere find themselves being dismissed as healer girlfriends despite the fact that they have no overlap with the category at all.
I can see how this could easily happen. You create a sexist word and people`d have no choice but to follow up on it, like the brainless automatons that they are. Of course, we`re not talking about us, we`re two most excellent roleplayers, we`re talking about the other people...you know, the bad ones...I`m a bit of a language purist so if you come across any inappropriate use of the word, feel free to scold the perpetrators on my behalf.
Should I come across it being used by anyone who isn`t someone whose judgement I have come to respect, I`ll listen to intonation and see if it`s used in disappointment, indignation or contempt, before deciding on a course of action. Being of the elder player generation, I`d be more inclined to try and involve players who`re experiencing trouble connecting, especially if i can tie it it any guild/church responsibilities my character might have, than to avoid them.
theoxfordgirl (6/25/2008)
I mean, have you seen the clothes some of them wear?
That is, if they wear any. It`s like they think it`s their right to flaunt themselves in public. Aren`t they ever worried about catching a cold?
theoxfordgirl (6/25/2008)
And you do really have to wonder about the long-term health of a child raised by women - is that any way to grow up?
Quite right! I mean - look at me! What do women know about raising children anyway? Did you know that two out of three child abusers are women?theoxfordgirl (6/25/2008)
You don't get people talking about "thug boyfriends", not because you don't get "thug boyfriends" - they're all over the place, certainly in my (totally anecdotal and not-to-be-used-for-statistics) experience - but because most of the people who use the term "healer girlfriend" tend to automatically (and probably subconsciously) assume that a male partner of an experienced LARPer is there to enjoy the LARP, get involved and become part of the game, whereas a female partner of an experienced LARPer is there to pour healing spells down their partner's tank and hide at the back wondering who all these nasty men with swords are and what they're doing.
Well, you know, give a guy a sword and you`ve got a player. He may be a crap player, but you`d still have to worry about him attacking you at half an excuse. He`s not just a piece of scenery. Whereas, if he were a healer boyfriend, he`d just be there to interact with the one he tagged along with, and nobody else. I would likewise be wary of a thug girlfriend.By the way, do healers not get offed first, to prevent 'respawning players'? Especially the healer-tagalongs, since they`re usually unarmoured? That`s what throwing weapons are for, isn`t it? (They don`t seem to have much effect on anyone else.) I once met a tagalong brother, the older brother of the organizer. He played the Guy sitting under the Tree. He just put on a costume and sat down under that tree, and every now and then he`d take a walk over the site. He didn`t get involved in anything. LRP was totally not his thing, but he was genuinely curious about this pasttime his brother engaged in and completely open to the other players, and his Tree became a stop point for players and he could usually be seen having a quiet conversation with one or two of them. He was not clinging to his brother, who was either in the control room or playing a key NPC. He was fully IC, just an old geezer who didn`t harm anyone. He was _not_ fifteen extra character points. theoxfordgirl (6/25/2008)
(Nice save, by the way, Lavlin - accusing the offended parties of the type of discrimination they're offended by - always goes down a hoot.)
Learned that from the feminists. They`re good at stuff like that. It`s related to the old feminist adagium "men who show hostility towards women (any women, in any context) are rapists". It couldn`t possibly be because they`re having a fight (men shouldn`t have fights with women, they should do as they`re told to), or because they have been screwed or even traumatized by women (women don`t do that!), no, it`s because they`re rapists. It`s a totally ludicrous, fallacious argument, but it`s very effective in making men shut the fuck up about any abuse they have suffered. And if it fails, you can always call them sad and pathetic, that`s bound to work.I do often get the feeling that people go around looking for stuff to take offense at. Older feminists droning on and on about issues that have been addressed decades ago are annoying enough. Younger women seem to be totally frustrated by the fact that there are no dragons left to kill and so they have to make up new ones to get that heroic feeling. It`s nice to have rolemodels, but it would be nicer if they weren`t outdated. theoxfordgirl (6/25/2008)
it's no more fair than assuming that every girlfriend who happens to be a healer is a "healer girlfriend".
No, that would indeed be an inappropriate use of the word.
________________________________________________________- IRL: Edwin Hofstra
- - mostly crewing at the moment
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Champion
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Sarah (6/25/2008)
Ballgowner is worse IMO, because it implies that the lady in question is doing no more than playing 'dressing up'.
Absolutely not - well, not when I say it - it says the person in question is a talker, not a fighter.
One of the best ballgowners I knew was a bloke - name of Andy Knighton.
I was a Ballgowner at the LT, fr'example - we had a team of ballgowners. Their job was to talk to the folk we wanted to be our mates, to make sure they were and to talk to our enemies, to make sure they didn't make any friends...
(Somehow, I suspect this'll get shouted down...)
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Champion
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Gosh I'm glad you're not on my side Lavlin.
P.s. You lost when you started ranting about feminists, but gg and thank you for playing.
A voice was heard to say, “Who dares disturb the crypt of the Immortal Space Bitches?”
“I am Grimm Shado,” said Grimm Shado, triple wand claws extending. “And I am here to take it to the limit.”
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Wag
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H (6/25/2008)
(Somehow, I suspect this'll get shouted down...)
There's no such thing as perspective in a moral debate, only lack of commitment.
"With us or against us" is what evil Neocons say.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" is what right-thinking liberals say.
Marios
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Apprentice
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OK, so I'm not a g/f or b/f of someone but I do find that the best way to learn a system is either crewing (fine if you're a LRPer) or playing a healer/fighter. Hence most of my first characters have been fighters or healers who get dumped (excuse the pun) after 1 or 2 events. I've never heard the term healer g/f but can totally believe it exists what with us LARPers being social retarded victims of bullying and so forth
Bladelands : Tostig Ironheart
Maelstrom : "Nursey" Relaeh
LT : Norman D' Brick
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Champion
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Mark, if you didn`t get the (cross)reference, you can always ask.  Btw, which team are you on? I can always decide to change sides.
________________________________________________________ - IRL: Edwin Hofstra
- - mostly crewing at the moment
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