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Cold Water and Brass Tacks
 
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Marios (4/23/2008)
Chapter II of that paper or pages 10-15
I do not believe that his statements are convincing. *shrugs* I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. Ill stop now though as its off topic really.
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Wag
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| And yet strangely in my 3 years working with young people at the bottom rung of employment in the drugs "industry" in Central London, I never met one with any job at all, most didn't even claim benefits in an attempt to remain anonymous. They always had cash, new trainers, the latest sports clothes and they never ever ran out of weed!They did mostly live with their mums- until they got their first "pull" then they became homeless- 'cos she "wasn't having that sort of ting in her house" and we'd try to sort it out, then they'd get pulled again and end up in Feltham. Of course their customers were always skint and would nick anything which wasn't screwed down, which could be a bit of a problem.
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Wag
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Marios (4/23/2008)
He did spend a decade with the Black Kings gang - I imagine he's at least somewhat aware of these issues.
More so than Flannel? Surely not...
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Wag
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Andy Rimmer (4/23/2008)
And yet strangely in my3 years working with young people at the bottom rung of employment in the drugs "industry" in Central London, I never met one with any job at all, most didn't even claim benefits in an attempt to remain anonymous. They always had cash, new trainers, the latest sports clothes and they never ever ran out of weed!They did mostly live with their mums- until they got their first "pull" then they became homeless- 'cos she "wasn't having that sort of ting in her house"and we'd try to sort it out, then they'd get pulled again and end up in Feltham.
I suspect dealing weed is not as profitable as cocaine due to the risk, although I note you still comment that they live with their mother. I think it's safe to say that a house of your own costs considerably more than a pair of new trainers and the latest sports clothes. Especially in Central London...
My point wasn't that all drugs dealers are really hard working go getting types that are just trying to get on in life, my point is that people are actually driven by fairly simply impulses and fairly simple conditions and with some effort at a rational analysis I think we can try to work out what those impulses are. However if we start from the basis that there is something functionally wrong with these people (in the sense that a car with a broken engine is functionally wrong, not in the sense that novels by Jeffry Archer are wrong) then I think we'll get nowhere. What Suderkesh showed was that the classic criminal agent, the crack dealer is actually just a normal individual responding normally to the economic reality of their surroundings, there is nothing "wrong" with him, he's doing exactly what you would expect him to do.
Andy Rimmer (4/23/2008)
Scarily I think Matt may have hit the nail on the head- though I think that in his sealed room experiment- Boss kid would end up giving some but not 1/2 of their food to another kid , who'd act as "muscle".
Maybe we're not meant to be civilised and have become delusional about our nature to survive this artificial environment.
Or maybe the system (of civilisation) is flawed and people are exploiting it (Rich and Poor)
Actually it's pretty clear that we are meant to be civilised. Specifically we are designed by nature to be social animals and to hang round in groups. We're meant to live together in packs. The problem is that doesn't mean we're meant to be angels. Nature designs each of us to act in our selfish self-interest and she doesn't give a rats ass for conservative morality, laws or society. We're designed to live together but we're also designed to cheat each other when it's in our best interests.
My example of the box full of starving kids (wonder if I can get a paper on that) is designed to illustrate that in the right circumstances we will operate according to some pretty feral and brutal rules. Put a cricket bat in that box on day 3 and you will have a lot of blood and a lot of dead kids by the end of the day. Put us in different circumstances and we'll behave differently. It's not rocket science. Find the circumstances least conducive to people battering each other to death with cricket bats, take steps to make those circumstances predominate and you'll reduce crime.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Wag
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Matt Pennington (4/23/2008)
More so than Flannel? Surely not...
Sometimes it takes a mind uncluttered by details to see through to the heart of things - for instance, despite having read Freakonomics, Levitt's blog and a couple of his and his student's papers, I hadn't realised that his big idea is that "not all people are honest". Just goes to show!
Marios
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Wag
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Marios (4/23/2008)
Sometimes it takes a mind uncluttered by details to see through to the heart of things - for instance, despite having read Freakonomics, Levitt's blog and a couple of his and his student's papers, I hadn't realised that his big idea is that "not all people are honest". Just goes to show!
Maybe I oversimplified a little.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Wag
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[quote.Actually it's pretty clear that we are meant to be civilised. Specifically we are designed by nature to be social animals and to hang round in groups. We're meant to live together in packs. quote]Maybe the problem is the size of the pack- in nature a pack would split if it became to big for local resources, hence my comment about civilised ( growing beyond natural boundaries might be a better description)
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Wag
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| Back to my little friends in London- they didn't deal weed- they smoked it, in their opinion only a fool would smoke what they were selling, the phrase "crack head" being used as an insult about intelligence. I think the money from crack provided a reasonable income for a 17/18 year old, and living at mums meant no responsibility. Also if you suddenly have a nice flat in Notting Hill and an Audi TT (dealers community and car of choice at the time),you'd be asking for it.
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Wag
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