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Overlord
 
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| Sorry folks I evidentally got here too late to moderate things appropriately when they started to slip off the rails. This was either because I have far too much to do with moving house and all, or because this thread is so tedious I couldn't be bothered to read it. We'll go with the former for now...
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Champion
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in response to marios, technicalities, to your commetns re: the brimingham six, I will respond, with the acquittal of the killers of Damilola taylor whom got of with the defence that they had made a mobile phone call from a place 100 yards away from the scene of the crime 5 minutes later.
Back on track, honestly, our police should focus less on motoring offences and more on preventing and prosecuting real crimes, use community support officers to enforce motoring offences, man speed guns et al.
Judges should jail more serious, prolific criminals instead of jailing people for not paying their t.v licence/ poll tax, using force to defend themselves, but jail career criminals, deport foreign ones, and stop letting them of with trivial sentences just to score political points.
Ministers should invest more money in jails, build more of them, hire more guards, probation staff ect, sort out the home office so foreign criminals are deported, and follow the example of the germans, french and spanish and deport these criminals regardless of human rights concerns.
____________________________________As the old robot saying goes "does not compute"
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Wag
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Xollob (4/21/2008)
deport these criminals regardless of human rights concerns.
Out of interest, where would you draw the line, once you decide to not worry about human rights.
Would you, for interest, be happy deporting a person to a country where you knew they would be tortured to death, for say, stealing a loaf of bread?
If not, what crime would you be happy with someone being deported to a country where they would tortured to death? Roughly where would you say the line should be, what crime do you personally feel would justify death by torture?
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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I do talk a good fight
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Yeah, I'm always wary of the hardline approach, too, as the "throw all the bastards on an island" approach (though I think I was the first to mention it in this thread) only ever seems to apply to "those OTHER law-breaking bastards". Uncle Jimmy who does a bit of work on the side as well as claiming his dole, or Cousin George who smokes a bit of weed now and again but hasn't murdered anyone in a fit of cannabis psychosis yet, or Auntie Dot who sometimes drives the Morris Minor after a couple of sherries, are always somehow exempt from exile. Of course, if the same people were immigrants rather than relatives, it'd be "Jimmy the scrounging, benefits-diddling thief making a mockery of our hard-working taxpayers", "George the drug-crazed youth rampaging through our streets", and "that mad old Polish woman who keeps trying to run me off the road".
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
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Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
"My other oversized foam weapon is THE LORD" -- Questionable Content
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Wag
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| I think I've said this before- Prevention it works we know it does, unfortunately we're so hung up on revenge that we don't consider it- pouring all of our criminal justice resources into punishment or rehab orientated "solutions". Of course once we've got a working preventative system in place any remaining criminals should be exiled to the Falklands or gassed- they've had their chance! THAT WASN'T MEANT SERIOUSLY. A much smaller prison system should be able to cope with those who are determined to be criminals- though I suspect that the nature of criminality would change if economics and boredom weren't factors anymore.
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Champion
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Flannel (4/21/2008)
Excellent! Back on track! Punishmenmt should not be confused (in ternminology here) with the generic system as a whole. *Nods* You believe therefore that rehabilitation is the best way to protect society (if Im reading that right), would you admit that there are persons who cannot be rehabilitated or crimes so heinous that society will not accept that rehabilitation? Or do you believe this is possible for all? Do you believe there should be an element of punishment for the individual responsible. Disconnnected from the crime to some extent, we usually see this as a prison term though punishment can take other forms be that physical (looss of limbs or life) or financial (higher Tax rate for ever.) Obviously forms of punishment are often also seen as deterrents. Do you believe the deterrent effect is of use to us in this society? I would agree that there are people who can't be rehabilitated and that some crimes people will not accept someone can be rehabilitated from. There is a difficult question as to what these crimes are and who these people are. I'm definitely anti death sentance. I really don't believe that it is an effective deterrant. I don't believe that punitive measures are as great a deterrant to offenders as people think they are. I think the deterrant is the prospect of "time inside", although I don't think that the amount of time you spend there is much of a deterrant. I think there should be a punishment element to the criminal justice system although it should always be secondary to rehabilitation. There are alot of social problems in the UK. I agree with Andy Rimmer that people need good prospects and incentives not to re-offend. I know your example of a higher tax rate forever is only an example, but measures like that do not protect the public. If someone is already on the breadline because they're an ex-con and working a minimum wage job, taxing them more is only goinng to serve as an incentive to re-offend. Matt J
If I wanted to listen to an arsehole, I'd fart!
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Wag
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| Up to a point "doing time" is actually an incentive for some, I'm constantly amazed by young people who are trying to get a custodial sentence as a way to further their "career", not only do they learn techniques and skills inside, they make contacts and develop future opportunities. Doing time is seen as "being serious" about crime and a tag or ASBO guarantees the respect of most teenagers who are into "street life".
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Champion
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| I completely agree Andy. This somehow needs to be changed, although I'm not overly sure as to how. I've had the idea of public humiliation banded about amongst friends before....a sort of bring back the stocks mentality. I can see how it would cause people to ridicule people who have committed crime and it might make the whole thing less "cool" and "serious". There are major implications on the human rights side of things though. I'm really not sure whether it would be a good idea or not. Matt J
If I wanted to listen to an arsehole, I'd fart!
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