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Champion
 
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| I'd love to join the the idea of just chain gang the lot of them and strp them into community service etc however like i said that sort of thing is demeaning and they will rebel. I'm not tryingto say that they shouldnt be demeaned if they've done wrong etc but if you just bully puch and crush the person when they leave the system they wont change and will just fight back. If you want to change somone you have to break them down and start from the ground up enforcing basic conditioning that everyone expreiences during there child hood, both posative reinforcment of good and negative enforment of bad.
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Eos: Sornasian: Gregory Patell; Burning Salamander; Fingers  Club Secretary Heroes and Heroines
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Wag
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AnthonyK (4/16/2008)
I'm not tryingto say that they shouldnt be demeaned if they've done wrong etc but if you just bully puch and crush the person when they leave the system they wont change and will just fight back.
Maybe. I think there is something to be said for the existence of a deterrent. Whilst a chain gang is pretty moronic, I think it's perfectly possible to have punishments that do punish without punch or crushing a person and without ensuring later rebellion. I'm not sure it particularly matters if they rebel at the time, in theoretical terms, although it may make a difference to rehabilitation rates in practice.
If you want to change somone you have to break them down and start from the ground up enforcing basic conditioning that everyone expreiences during there child hood, both posative reinforcment of good and negative enforment of bad.
I've heard it works best if you play them some Beethoven while you're at it. Put me off drinking milk for life it did...
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Prodigal
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AnthonyK (4/16/2008)
If you want to change somone you have to break them down and start from the ground up enforcing basic conditioning that everyone expreiences during there child hood, both posative reinforcment of good and negative enforment of bad.No. If you want to brainwash someone, that's what you have to do. There's plenty more besides, but if you want to change someone (i.e. help them break out of negative patterns, be that an addiction or an aversion to work) then you first of all need to educate them. Crucially, you then need their co-operation; lasting change comes from within. If they want to make a change to their life, it will be much easier for them to succeed. The external imposition of authority as a substitute for self-discipline and taking responsibility for one's own actiosn is kinda the problem, after all...
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Joe Rooney, the Enemy Of Fun
Insurrection LRP: high fantasy in a dystopian setting. First event: 24-26 October 2008, in Leicestershire. Book online!
Bladelands: Raoul Ortez - heretic, medium, bodyguard and scumbag
EOS: staff (probably the best job in LRP!)
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Wag
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| Of course society seems unwilling to accept that some people cant be changed, that some folk are too thick to educate and that some people are actually just evil. Once we're willing to allow that as a concept we might stand some chance of helping those who can be helped.
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Wag
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raggedhalo (4/17/2008)
If you want to brainwash someone, that's what you have to do. There's plenty more besides, but if you want to change someone (i.e. help them break out of negative patterns, be that an addiction or an aversion to work) then you first of all need to educate them. Crucially, you then need their co-operation; lasting change comes from within. If they want to make a change to their life, it will be much easier for them to succeed.
Personally I remain unconvinced that anyone has ever found a reliable way to change people. It's nice to think that education will simply make it all better, but I'm highly dubious whether it actually does or not. It's seems like exactly the sort of thing everyone decides will work because it would be so nice if it did. Reality is rarely so convenient.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Wag
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Flannel (4/17/2008)
Of course society seems unwilling to accept that some people cant be changed, that some folk are too thick to educate and that some people are actually just evil.
I think accepting that some people are actually just evil is rather pointless. It's a good label but the implicit sense of helplessness doesn't appeal. I'm not in favour of leaving it to god to sort out... On the other hand I think if society stopped pretending that "normal" human beings were angels and that "broken" human beings were devils and that actually we're built by nature to do evil things when it suits nature then we might have some chance to improve things.
Once we're willing to allow that as a concept we might stand some chance of helping those who can be helped.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman. He was talking about space shuttles, but it's a similar thing. 
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Prodigal
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Matt Pennington (4/17/2008)
Personally I remain unconvinced that anyone has ever found a reliable way to change people. It's nice to think that education will simply make it all better, but I'm highly dubious whether it actually does or not. It's seems like exactly the sort of thing everyone decides will work because it would be so nice if it did. Reality is rarely so convenient.My point was that, in reality, the only lasting changes are ones people make in their own lives. If people aren't aware of the other options and/or the reasons for changing, they won't want to make changes (why would they)? So I'm not saying that education is a magic wand that we wave and things get better, but rather that it's a necessary precondition for any personal change people might want to make. To use myself as an example, I was a committed carnivore for a long time. It wasn't until I learnt about the meat and dairy industries that I decided to become first ovo-lacto-vegetarian and, later, vegan. Similarly, I used to be a big drinker. A few years after I first learnt about straight edge, and with the support of a friend who did the same, I decided to become sXe. In both cases, education was what facilitated/catalysed the change. It wasn't the only factor, but it was certainly key.
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Joe Rooney, the Enemy Of Fun
Insurrection LRP: high fantasy in a dystopian setting. First event: 24-26 October 2008, in Leicestershire. Book online!
Bladelands: Raoul Ortez - heretic, medium, bodyguard and scumbag
EOS: staff (probably the best job in LRP!)
Joe R's LARPCard
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Prodigal
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Flannel (4/17/2008)
Of course society seems unwilling to accept that some people cant be changed, that some folk are too thick to educate and that some people are actually just evil.What precisely is "evil"? Is it some pervasive supernatural force that Satan uses to tempt us into Hell? I don't believe it is. I believe that "evil" is a social construct that allows us to write off the problems that we are scared to deal with. The fact of the matter is that we are animals, whose behaviour is a combination of genetic predisposition (biology or nature) and environment (social conditioning or nurture). There is no additional factor of Satanic Influence TM that means some people are beyond redemption. Similarly, no one is "too thick to educate." A key feature of animals is that we can learn. How good individuals are at assimilating and retaining academic information is not the sole measure of how "educable" they might be, and neither are SATs, GCSEs, A-levels or anything like that. Have some faith in humanity!
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Joe Rooney, the Enemy Of Fun
Insurrection LRP: high fantasy in a dystopian setting. First event: 24-26 October 2008, in Leicestershire. Book online!
Bladelands: Raoul Ortez - heretic, medium, bodyguard and scumbag
EOS: staff (probably the best job in LRP!)
Joe R's LARPCard
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