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Champion
 
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Goth? Passion? I thought Goth was all about not being enthusiastic about anything? 
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PD - Machupa Kivull - Sandy coloured great-coated Gnoll
Shards/Ascendancy - Crew
FOIP is short for 'torture me for more info'
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Champion
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| It's not the tribe as such, but what they represent. It's complicated, but it goes something like: Barbarian Goths get a reputation for burning things and destroying the wonders of Rome (think about the origin of 'Vandal'). Medieval period architecture (see Notre Dame cathedral et al). Renaissance period - Medieval style becomes unfashionable, Classical stuff comes into style. Old Medieval stuff described as 'Gothic' (i.e. anti-Roman, barbarian etc). This is why Notre Dame is a Gothic cathedral. Horace Walpole writes The Castle of Otranto in 1764. Otranto is full of blood, murder etc and has a medieval setting. Alluding to these elements, Walpole gives it the subtitle 'A Gothic Story'. This spawns the genre of the Gothic novel. These are characterised by blood, violence, dark secrets (but not necessarily medievalism). They're popular around the time of the French and American revolutions, so they often feature rebellion too (q.v. Frankenstein) and being misunderstood by authority. The Gothic genre lurches on for decades, including stuff like the first Vampire novels (Carmilla, Varney and Dracula for example) and classics like Wuthering Heights or Jane Eyre. Falls out of fashion in the 20th century, until a resurgence in the 80s; it grows out of punk (rebellion) and New Romantic (like the Gothic novel grew out of the old Romantic). Key features throughout history: rebellion against authority (Rome, Georgian England, Thatcher, Mum and Dad); the ornate (Gothic architecture, highly descriptive prose, Alchemy jewelry); repression versus inner darkness (Frankenstein's monster, Heathcliffe, self-harm?) or secrets (Otranto, Mrs Rochester, not telling dad where you've been all night). Like I said, complicated. That's a very simplistic version of it.
-- -- -- Eos: Manius Shard, most patient man in the World of Dawn FnH: Officious Guard no.1
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Christopher Tookey's lovechild.
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Shelford (4/8/2008)
Anyway what are 'Emos'. I've been happily nodding whilst people discuss 'Emo Kids' etc whithout actually knowing what they are. I kind of know what they look like, but what are they, where do they come from, what's it all about?
As far as I can tell, it's like Goth but with more whinging and less style. Since the only point I've ever seen in Goth is the dressing up, that makes emo a complete waste of time as far as I'm concerned.
Ah well, leave them to it. Cyber-glam-morris fusion for the win.
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Eos: Diego Gatito, Shard tank. Still alive!
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Champion
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"What is Goth?"
A fondness for melancholy, perhaps.
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Squire
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Apache (4/10/2008)
it's a way of life rather than a lifestyle.I don't understand the difference between a way of life and a lifestyle. Apache (4/10/2008)
This makes us easy targets because we won't fight back. A lot of Goths would literally lie there and take a beating rather than retaliate. This is true of verbal abuse as well, most Goths would mutter something in return under their breath but wouldn't openly confront the person.I remember there being plenty of fights in the goth clubs I used to go to in the early 90s. I was once beaten up on Camden Lock by 3 goths*. I don't think as a way of life or lifestyle or whatever goths are particularly more or less placid than anyone else. People are just people as far as I can see. J *in fairness I was quite annoying back then. I used to get beaten up all the time by all sorts of people, not just goths.
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Heroic Knight
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| Goths, emos, et al I feel are all people with similar beliefs, creating a sub group safe enough in which to express their own feelings and values without fear of constant ridicule from a society that dosnt understand. The attitude of Kevin (Harry Enfield) but with style. And more attitude. And maybe angst. It has already been mentioned on this thread about the creativity and motivation of the above when compared to chavs and I totally agree! No self respecting goth would want to become a WAG and be famous only for hanging off an athletic arm, spending said athletic persons cash in huge amounts on pointless items and simpering for the photographers. Goths want to be recognized within their own right and the look is the start of this.
Give me what I want and maybe no one gets hurt
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Champion
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I really do have to say, the idea that Goth is a way of life really rubs me up the wrong way. Its really not. Its a style of dress and an associated style of music (and importantly, you can have one without the other). Just because its a form of expressing yourself and something you identify with doesn't make it a 'way of life' and describing it as such makes it sound more like some bizarre secular cult. You dont get indy kids and hippies describing their subculture as a way of life (and generally their lifestyles aren't particularly different) so what makes Goth so special in that regard?
I'm happy for you to disagree with me, but I would ask that you tell me how one lives life the Goth Way?
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PD - Machupa Kivull - Sandy coloured great-coated Gnoll
Shards/Ascendancy - Crew
FOIP is short for 'torture me for more info'
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Prodigal
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| Some sub-cultures do describe a way of life as well. For example 'hippy' can mean a way of life as well as a style of dress, it depends on your definitions. As someone who is vaguely goth in music tastes (not clothes, I like colour too much to ever dress fully goth, and frankly my skin tone is such that I really should NOT wear all black, oh and did I mention the impracticality of some goth fashion), I also cant see how goth can be considered a lifestyle as well.
_____________________________________________________ It is not a competition. It is a web forum.
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