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Prodigal
 
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Having looked at some systems, I must say I'm quite fond of the FR system, where armour's main purpose is to stop you dying of your wounds, but you can get temporarily put out of the fight through it quite easily. (Not so keen on different ranks of weapon having different armour penetration without extra calls, due to the 'what if I got hit from behind?' issue.)
Whilst not reducing damage below half might be awkward and unrealistic for subtractive armour in the normal 'a single is one point!' damage systems that are out there at the moment ('so you mean the peasent has better armour penetratation than the poleaxe guy?'), making that a subdual half might be workable (sure, the peasents can beat the guy in plate-and-chain onto the ground by exhausting him and bruising him, but they have to take off his helmet to cut his throat afterwards, which might be tricky if his mates are still around).
Actual platemail probably calls for real subtractive AC (because beating on the tin can ineptly with a stick isn't going to get you anywhere), but chain you can certainly wind people through (even if it's actually backed up properly with padding) and it's that level of armour and below for which the Ten Thousand Peasents effect irritates me most.
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Knight
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ChessyPig (7/7/2006)
Simon Marks - the system sounds interesting, but complicated. How does it actually work in practice? Does the person performing the blow call the PV as well as the damage?
In practice it works fine players called PV and Damage level with 'No damage level = Serious'
The system was a varient on 1-hit system. If it got through your armour you were in trouble,
The thing is, the system is totally intergrated with the rest of the system. Explaining it further is more or less explaining the entire rules.
Having said that, you would be better of talking to players about if the system worked well or not. Everyone seem to enjoy themselves.
Anyhow, the concept is sound - threshold mechanics works well. Implementation depends on exact specifics of the design. i.e. I don't know if it useful without seeing an actual design!
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Champion
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I suggest that the armour and hits you have are a direct relation to the scale and duration of the combat That Is Wanted in your system?
Also, complex reductions == battle board ??
Matt Pennington (4/26/2007)
But I do think LRP is a hobby best enjoyed in a positive state of mind.
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Champion
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| We've come up with a theory for armour, not sure whether it'll work at the moment though. Stil putting the bits together in my head Everyone has a basic number of global hit points, you can ignore any effects whilst these are being eroded away. Once you're out then the next hit will take out locations. Once your body or chest it hit then you're out cold. After 5 mintues you wake up minus 1 life. Most people have 2 to 4 lives You buy armour and get a number of armour points per location (1 for each light armoured location , 3 for each heavy etc) and add em all up. For every 3 points you get an extra floating hit The next bit has 2 options 1) Armour isn't eroded at all. you get your full compliment of floating hits back after each encounter 2) Your Armour points are eroded by the amount of damage you took. You get back floating hits for the number you have remaining. i.e. have 3 locations with Heavy armour and you've 9 armour points and hence 3 extra floating hits. Take 2 hits in an encounter and you'll only have 7 Armour points so only 2 extra flaoting hits Like I say, still a work in progress
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and Minimeister
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| Global hits are a good idea. They help avoid head hits for one and avoid "I'll bite your knees off!" for another. If you've been looking at the thread about "Roleplay and Rules" go together then you'll see there's some debate about what makes good armour rules. I am inclined to agree with Ian Sturrock in his comments there, to recap (poorly I'm sure) 1) You should have an armour repair skill for specialised people. This can be magical or practical, but everyone being a "crap blacksmith" is no fun. 2) If you make people take there armour off then they'll ignore you. Hope this helps. Also Subtractive armour is stupid.
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Champion
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I thought I'd mention a system I came up with but am not yet happy with yet. I came up with it as a compromise between the two systems mentioned in the topic. If anyone has a way of balancing it, let me know. I'm trying to make it as simple as possible but there are a couple of flaws.
Each level of armour allows you to ignore the next x number of damage calls. Ignores are not locational and are lost when you receive a hit to any armoured location.
Heavy = 3 ignores
Medium = 2 ignores
Light = 1 ignores
All hits of DOUBLE or above will do 1 damage to location if ignored. This means a peasant doing SINGLE fighting a armoured warrior doing SINGLE will likely still lose. It also means that there is still a chance a peasant can win if very lucky.
Feedback would be cool (probably best pm it to stop the thread being highjacked).
The armoured character can not chose which hits are ignored. They have to take them as they come.
Side note on peasants -
I think 10 peasants could rip a fully armoured warrior limb from limb if they were that intent on killing him. A good stick would finally get in the way of a sword, then they'd jump on him and he is history. We are not talking peasants who throw veg and buns to try and kill here... get real. They'd fight as dirty as anyone who have the intent to kill. The speed at the end of a staff furthest from the peasant would be enough to smash a skull so it would definitely leave a horrible dent in armour. 10 peasants whirling staffs at a slow lumbering armoured knight would be unblockable and would hurt!
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I do talk a good fight
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10 peasants whirling staffs, eh...
Well, I agree with you that a true quarterstaff will dent armour, and probably cause the chap in the armour pain. It might not kill, but it'll hurt.
But a true quarterstaff will be 8 to 9 feet long. I would love to see you try to get 10 people armed with quarterstaffs all making effective attacks on one opponent simultaneously, without also thumping one another. If they can do that, they're a lot better trained than most peasants....
I think, too, that given the number of long-hafted battlefield weapons that evolved (bills, pikes, lochaber axes, pollaxes, battle-axes, etc.), we have to assume that soldiers found it advantageous to mount a heavy cutting and/or piercing head on their staffs, rather than just thumping their foes with bits of wood. I suspect that a staff is less effective against an armoured foe than a pollaxe. I'm not saying the staff is totally ineffective -- my gut feeling would be that the staff, hitting full force, is going to do a lot of damage to an armoured head (stunning, jolting, maybe even KOing if you're lucky) and maybe some damage to a joint (knackering armour), but otherwise is not going to do much more than inflict a bit of pain. A heavier two-handed hafted weapon is more likely to damage both armour and armoured knight.
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and Minimeister
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Taize (7/15/2006)
Each level of armour allows you to ignore the next x number of damage calls. Ignores are not locational and are lost when you receive a hit to any armoured location.
Heavy = 3 ignores
Medium = 2 ignores
Light = 1 ignores
All hits of DOUBLE or above will do 1 damage to location if ignored. This means a peasant doing SINGLE fighting a armoured warrior doing SINGLE will likely still lose. It also means that there is still a chance a peasant can win if very lucky.
The armoured character can not chose which hits are ignored. They have to take them as they come.hmm... ablative armour is strictly on topic and I think it's a good approach. How's it play?
a slow lumbering armoured knight would be unblockable and would hurt! If armour made you slow and lumbering then the people who wore it would be dead quicker than those with less armour. I'd venture that knight's actually fight pretty quickly, armour is, after all, not that heavy. Most larpers find it cumbersome because they're not used to carrying that amount of weight around, but I bet fellas in the army who do would move pretty sharpish.
There is only overconfidence and terror.
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