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Posted Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:20 PM


Apprentice

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I've been kicking around a few ideas for a historical event based during the time of the French and Indian war.

To my mind it's got so much stuff to work with from a character/events point of view that I would want it to be a straight historical event.

Not re-enactment level but high-kit standards (Dumnonni levels as a rough guide for those who know it).

Now, I'm wandering why there are so few historical events of this type. Even where things are based on a historical period (like Dumnonni, Blood Red Roses and Grimm Tales) they seem to just use it as a place to base a background on. When ever something comes close it seems to add in some sort of fantasy (or more often horror) element and I'm just intrigued as to why people think this happens.

why are there so few (none?) straight, 'vanilla' historical roleplay events? 

Be clear, I'm not talking about re-enactment and wearing authentic pants and sitting in mud for the weekend, but proper events.  It seems that if you set it in the right period/place there is so much going in your characters will be too busy to sit in mud. Examples of period/place that spring to mind include Colonial America in the French & Indian War, Ancient Greek city states, England during the Civil War, Italian city states during the Renaissance, Medieval France during the Hundred Years War the list is nearly endless...

Is there no interest/appetite in this sort of thing? Is that why there are no events like this? I'm interested to hear what people think.

Cheers

Si

p.s. i'm not intending to 'have a pop' at any system mentioned, these are just the ones i know of and fitted into my example.

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Post #5328
Posted Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:43 PM


Wag

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Si, all I can do is agree with you and say yes please do run events based on historical events. I've been out of the LRP loop for a while and the kind of game you propose would definitely get me fired up.

I suppose LRP has its roots in tabletop and the majority of those games have all held a fantastical element.

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Post #5329
Posted Wednesday, July 05, 2006 3:23 PM


Wag

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I think it is mainly because fantasy or horror is a cheap and easy way to add drama. About the closest I have ever played to historic was Gall Saga and that was fairly soaked in fantasy elements mainly due to the 'what the peasents beleived is true' aspects of the game. So, god is real and so is the devil and angels and demons. Fey exist and certain magics work and so on. However, these elements were often mere backdrop compared to some of the more mundane plots which were run - soap opera lives of villagers, high politics between church and state and vikings and so on. The fantasy in that case was a mere spice as opposed to the main dish it is in most fantasy LRP.

Gall saga, Dummoni, BRR and even Shards (with its psuedo historic elements) have all suffered in the past through appearing to be too historical. Accusations of 'costume facism' and 'needing to have a degree in history to play them' have abounded and even though untrue to a large extent (all have had high costume standards for example but never suffered 'facism' over it, no more than the 'min phys reps' for Maelstrom) these have scarred the popularity of the events. Which is a shame as they are (or were in some cases) excellent events.

I post the above as a warning as I think it is important to make sure that you get across the message of how you want this game to run without alienating a lot of people who may otherwise enjoy it. Stressing the 'historic accuracy' elements too much may put people off as much as it may attract others. Many have bad memories of history at school and may therefore not want to relive it in LRP too much. You may, for example, prefer to instead market it in some other way which stresses no magic/fantasy elements. Possibly emphasising the 'gritty realism' of the event or something. 

Oh, and another thing, never make claims of historic accuracy if you cannot back them up with good research. I know for a fact that there are a number of history academics and talented amatuers in and around LRP who will jump on any claim of 'accuracy' and search for something to find fault with

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Post #5334
Posted Wednesday, July 05, 2006 3:25 PM
Prodigal

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I agree that it's odd how few non-fantasy historical larps there are out there. I think that I personally prefer historical fantasy to straight history- it's the same with books, I read historical novels fairly often but I'm more likely to pick up a book which is history with a fantasy twist. I'm not sure why this is.

Having said that, I'd be quite surprised if every larper in the country had this sort of attitude.


  WARNING: the information above may have been subjected to dangerously high levels of ignorance.

OOC (and on Pagga): Carrie
Post #5335
Posted Wednesday, July 05, 2006 6:25 PM
Prodigal

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I think, from looking at convention websites, that freeformers tend to do 'actually historical' more than live-combat LARPers (or at least, one-off LARPs are more likely to be historical than ongoing LARPs).



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Post #5359
Posted Friday, July 07, 2006 2:19 AM
Prodigal

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Personally I'd really like to see more historical / no fantasy larp. The settings are so much richer, more detailed, and more consistent (and inconsistent in the right places) than made up worlds.

As Balor says, fantasy is a cheap and easy way to insert drama. That's why there are so many hack fantasy novels on the market.  Writing 'human interest' plots is much more challenging, and plots based on social conventions require a detailed society with social rules and customs.

As pointed out, freeforms tend to go more in historical settings, through they lack of phy repping (using hotels and cons as venues) I think is a bit of a let down.

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Post #5476
Posted Friday, July 07, 2006 9:02 AM
Heroic Knight

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The main issue I have with historical LRPs with no fantasy element - not that it'd stop me playing them, but it'd certainly keep me wanting to play fantasy games too - is the lack of variety in female roles. Veering away from historical accuracy into fantasy allows a greater range of activity for women. I don't care about requirements for authentic kit - I do care about having my IC activity restricted because of my OOC gender.
It could be a misperception on my part, but I'd feel restricted if I was barred from holding IC positions of power, barred from playing a combatant character etc. There's no way I could get away with wearing male costume and playing a male character - not without trashing everyone elses suspension of disbelief.
Post #5485
Posted Friday, July 07, 2006 9:48 AM
Heroic Knight

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The lack of good female roles is more an indication of lack of thought about a historical period. It would be difficult to argue that women's roles held as much immediate power as men, but, as well as the obvious 'power behind the throne' positions there are several ways for women to take what are usually considered male roles. Here are a few examples of powerful female roles from various periods....

Abbess of monastic order - a good political role giving temporal and spiritual power over an extended region
Wife whose husband is at war - can effectively take over husbands role, especially good if the war is a long way away or very long (think crusades). Can also become an almost military role if something happens at home.

More when I have some spare time for typing


The Great Larp Conspiracy
Post #5489
Posted Friday, July 07, 2006 10:11 AM