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Champion
 
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| Every now and again, I hear/read people complaining that others aren't fighting in a suitably exaggerated or heroic style. I've seen numerous systems that say you can only do one blow per second per weapon, or that you must draw it back at least the length of the "blade" before you can strike again. This last weekend (playing Resistance, where any combat that lasts more than 30s is basically guaranteed to kill your character) I was pondering this. What's the reasoning behind this rule? Cos the usual one is either for "realism" or for appearance. Now, I don't buy into the whole LRP-as-spectator-sport thing, and so I'm generally not that interested in how my combats look. Well, that's not entirely true; if they look swift and brutal then I guess I'm happy, because I enjoy swift and brutal more than I enjoy a courtly duel. So, what do people think? Are rules like these necessary? What constitutes "drum-rolling"? Does limiting weapon-speed militate against swift'n'brutal/efficient combat styles?
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Heroic Knight
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| The stance I've always heard is that the 1-second rule is there to cover the fact that, IC, you are not in fact fighting with a light piece of rubber and latex but with a heavy length of wood/metal etc. Even daggers are a good bit heavier in RL than LARP daggers, and this adjusts for that in the world of the game. Given that many of the people involved will be wearing actual metal armour rather than the lightweight equivalents, it makes sense to me as a rule, particularly as there are generally ways round it for e.g. daggers, such as by ambidexing. These weapons lend themselves to a fast, brutal fighting style in LARP as in RL, so to my mind this makes sense.
Maelstrom - Lieutenant Sasagani of the Havocstani Medical Corps. "Every inch the wolf - all five feet of you."
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Wag
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Estimated time to inevitable "I can swing a dagger over 80 times per second" argument : 10 minutes and counting.
PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Lord Nasir Suran
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner
RL - Will Robinson
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Heroic Knight
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Halo, dude, I once saw you take out a troll with nothing but a pair of daggers... Seriously impressive!
Several factors I can think of off the top of my head. 'Realism' 'Game Balance' and 'Safety'. There will be others, of course. They are not opposing camps, in my opinion, and should be considered together when making a decision.
Fencers for example, - realistically, they can fight inordinately fast, so quickly that it stops being a spectator sport, because the audience can't see what they're doing - hell - even the contestants and the judges have to rely on electronics to actually adjudicate who hit who and where.
I'll admit, I've done WMA swordfighting, and that can get pretty fast and frenetic. Anyone who thinks that a metal 2 handed sword is slow and heavy to fight with, well... they're not once they're in the hands of someone who is trained. The pattern of wields, cuts and thrusts can make for a very effective fighting technique, much of which can be redeveloped for LRP. And its quick. If anyone gets an opportunity to see trained swordsmen fight should go and do so. (however in my opinion, the quality of swordsmanship at the tourney at The Living History Fayre is very poor)
However 'Realism' runs into the other two factors - 'Safety', quickly dealt with - We're not trying to actually kill or hurt eachother, therefore certain checks and balances go in to LRP fighting to ensure that this doesn't happen (often). Slowing things down can help that.
'Game Balance' - breaks down into (at least) 'Enjoyability' and 'Rules mechanics'.
With a large number of calls found in most systems, there needs to be an interval between calls in order for an opponent to react accordingly. I.e. possibly go 'argh' and fall over, or possibly not. A period of (roughly) One Second has been decided on in Maelstrom, for example. It allows enough time for the victim to determine what they can do about it. Particularly when there are methods of resisting an attack.
furthermore, being pounded into the ground with sixteen 'DoubleNecroSeverLevelDrains' (not that those are found in Mael)in quick succession is never fun for the victim, who may have to then lie there back tracking whether any of those may have or have not affected their character...
just some thoughts.
Ascendancy: Major Hoyght, Marine officer, Archipelago
Dr Flay, Horologist and Alchemist - www.AscendancyLRP.co.uk -
Maelstrom: '?' -All round enigma
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Wag
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raggedhalo (2/21/2008)
So, what do people think? Are rules like these necessary? What constitutes "drum-rolling"? Does limiting weapon-speed militate against swift'n'brutal/efficient combat styles?
I think realism is about as helpful a criterion for resolving conflicts over larp fighting styles as 'morality' is for resolving global political conflicts - it means totally different things to different people. It works for small, local groups of larpers where one high priest of Correct Fighting can promote the faith and suppress heresies, but it's not helpful at larger games.
For big games - which aren't selling themselves as supporting a particular creed of fighting - you (I) just want rules which clarify an easily comprehensible set of rules which allows you (me) to fight with other people from outside of community of combat co-religionists without too much chance of conflict.
Regardless of what people do with the weapons - whether they use them 'morally' or 'immorally' the game only requires that there's a cap on rapidity of system calls (how you land the blow is up to you - as an opponent player all I need to know is the call and that religious differences in fighting won't allow you to step behind me put in 10 calls in 2 seconds on the grounds that your local club accepts that as representing Lethal Stabbing).
How well people time themselves during a fight is a different issue - but at least larpers of all faiths can agree on what a second is (even if they find it hard to gauge mid-fight).
Another one that comes up is whether a blow was hard/proper/moral enough to count (people suggesting that blows on the wrist/light blows shouldn't ought to count). Again, I think it has to be a case of when in Rome do what the Romans do - but when in a multicultural metropolis do what the law says and keep your ethnicity to yourself. If a shot seems really obviously irrelevant (scraped the heel of the boot/rebounded off your guard and tickled your pinkie) there's always the possibility that the person you're fighting will let you off with a shake of their head (so long as it's clear to everyone else watching).
Marios
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Champion
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| I favour the 90 degrees rule in low hitpoint systems. (I read somewhere - off-LRP - that realistically it`s closer to 70 degrees, but 90 will do, as it`s easier to gauge.) That said, my personal experience tells me that if you don`t leave your opponent the time to realize that, and how hard, he`s been hit, he`s going to ignore the hits he can`t keep track off. And since I`m no touch sensitive calculator myself...
________________________________________________________ - IRL: Edwin Hofstra
- - mostly crewing at the moment
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Heroic Knight
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| It's because some weapons are large. A good idea is the rule for "pulling back teh length of the weapon" for a blow. The damage then being relative to weapon size. Using a skill point system to up a damage level for a smaller weapon. Sometimes people forget they would break something if they held weapons in a certain way. I personally don't like a "wait one second per blow" as it's not about time it's about control and speed of the user. Mind you. A few LRP weapons are heavier than thier counter parts. Anyyyyway. It comes down to what your actually trying to achieve with combat. Is it a straight "this is fighting in our game". Where it is all real world physics with the exception to stabbing. Or, are you saying it's a physical representation to what would be happening real world. So a light tap is a "stab" and a wait a second and tap is a big strike etc etc (bad examples used to only illustrate the points). Anyway combat is a hot debate as you get the thought police and the "Yeah but I can stab someone twenty times with my dagger" ites. As to the "stab someone twenty times". Simply you can't do it (trust me I have been slashed and I have stabbed). Also if you "could" stab twenty times in the same spot, why? If the first time did nothing the next 20 is just going to annoy th persona s your not hitting vitals. Person your stabbing then turns around and kills you while your concentrating on stabbing twenty times. It simply does not work.
Fame and Fortune; DT/Ref/4th monsterSkullDuggery; Baron Tamworth Grim Faded Glory; Book Crossbowman "not a mage"
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Wag
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Just out of interest, are any of the people opposed to structures like the One Second Rule actually slow fighters in LRP? It's just that from experience every single person that's made this argument around me IRL has been a dagger fighter with a history of landing lots and lots of blows in combats, very quickly. Every single one, without exception.
I'd be very interested to hear from someone who doesn't have a fairly clear vested interest but was still against combat speed restrictions.
PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Lord Nasir Suran
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner
RL - Will Robinson
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