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Prodigal
 
Group: Eos Staff
Last Login: Yesterday @ 7:25 PM
Posts: 662,
Visits: 3,008
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| So, I'm back, harping on about Insurrection again. In a fit of enthusiasm, when we first started talking about the idea about 18 months ago, we registered ourselves as a company limited by guarantee; we'd heard that it was the best way to be protected from lawsuits and so on. However, according this thread, that's a bit of an illusion and wouldn't protect us on the scale of thing we're planning (two of us at the helm, 30-50 players, half that number in crew). So, fair enough, thinks I, at some point I need to get around to sorting out a bank account; I'd feel much happier with people sending cheques for our game to Insurrection LRP than to me directly. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of people sending me cheques, it's just an accountability thing. And I saw this thread about bank accounts, and it's all talking about LRP clubs. But we're not planning to be a club or have members as such. So what's the best way to get a bank account? 1. Just use one of our personal bank accounts
2. Remain as a company
3. Become a club
4. Something else The problems with these ideas are as follows: 1. As I said above, I'm just not comfortable with this one. I know I'm much happier posting a cheque addressed to Resistance LRP or Majestic Oak Ltd. than I am to Chris Tully or Jon Ely. I imagine most people are similar.
2. Loads of paperwork. Plus the person who was our Company Secretary had a spectacular falling out with the other guy involved in running the system. Plus it doesn't really provide that much protection, apparently.
3. Well, we don't want to have members or anything like that, and all the model constitutions are based around that approach.
4. I can't think of anything else!
So, my question to the fine people here at rule7 is simple: what do you think the best way for us to operate our finances/legal status is? As a company, as a club, or as some mates?
---
Joe Rooney - Battle Vegan
Insurrection LRP: high fantasy in a dystopian setting.
Event Two: 17th-19th April 2009. Book now for £20 discount!
Bladelands: Raoul Ortez - apostate, medium, bodyguard and vicious lunatic
EOS: staff (probably the best job in LRP!)
Joe R's LARPCard
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Prodigal
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:52 PM
Posts: 511,
Visits: 2,178
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| Being a Limited company only protects you where your company winds up with debts. If you were a sole trader or partnership (the other two main forms of company) then you as individuals would be liable for any debts. With the limited company it is the company itself that owes the money, so you won't have to sell your car / house to pay off any debts. Its a hell of a lot of hassle for not much protection for an organisation of our size. profound Decisions are a Ltd co, but they deal with tens of thousands of pounds a year, so potentially Matt would be facing losing his house if he couldn't meet his debts. So it makes sense. For the small fish like ourselves, its unnecessary (and costly as well) I've run Dark Light as an unincorporated association (I guess thats probably the nearest to what we are) for some time, so technically I am the "company". Cheques are addressed to me and go into my account, just as the money goes out when I pay for stuff. I don't personally have a problems with it. I keep track of whats going in and whats going out. If we book a site and no-one comes then its my pocket it comes out of (and I have lost money overall). We looked into a bank account but the problem we had was that most wont let you go overdrawn, so we'd have to get a balance of several hundred pounds before we could use it to book sites. Some will ask for a copy of your constitution (they're fairly easy to do)and will want at least two signatories on it. We used to have one years ago, but again I had the problem that the Treasurer left without amending the details so we couldn't access the money for a while. Overall its easier and cheaper to run as a club / society / association than a company, and I've found that most people don't have a problem with sending cheques to personal names. Most of the booking we do now though use Paypal
- -------------
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- Brighton Below : Organiser
- Serenity: Capt Tom Crowson
- RL: Simon / Trez
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Squire
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:22 PM
Posts: 38,
Visits: 167
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I went into Lloyds (in Grays, Essex) the other day and picked up an application form for an account - just said it's to open an account for a club and it was as easy as anything. You can have it setup with multiple signatories, and set so anyone, and number, or anyone + chairman can write cheques. No card for it, but hopefully not a problem in this line of work ;-)
Robin
DNDLarp - LARP system (Unforgotten Realms) and OGL rules for d20 LARPing
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Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 9:50 AM
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Trez (1/24/2008)
Its a hell of a lot of hassle for not much protection for an organisation of our size. profound Decisions are a Ltd co, but they deal with tens of thousands of pounds a year, so potentially Matt would be facing losing his house if he couldn't meet his debts. So it makes sense. For the small fish like ourselves, its unnecessary (and costly as well)
Being a limited company is a very serious issue with significant legal ramifications. It's something that you need to sit down and think about very carefully, weigh up and pros and cons and decide if it's the right way forward for you.
We did it because the accountant went "Look just sign this piece of paper, trust me you'll be better off."
So we're one. I don't really know what it means but the accountant makes me sign things and the government sends me bits of paper telling me that I've made an important decision. So it must be true.
I wouldn't bother.
Personally I don't give a rat's ass who I send my cheque to. I'd rather send it to "Dave who I've know for years and runs good games" than to "Another Crap LRP Ltd". I think having your own account does make you look a bit more "organized" and may actually help you organize the money for your LRP game a bit better.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Wag
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:39 PM
Posts: 1,141,
Visits: 3,626
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| If you are small and plan to put all your profits into making the game better then I'd say set up as a club/society. Its only worth being a limited company and having all the tax hassle that that will entail if you are actually standing to make a living from it. And even if you are planning to pay yourself a salary from working for the system it probably isn't worth it unless you stand to make a significant profit/living wage from it. As stated, you only get protection from things like bankruptcy with certain company status options. You don't get protection if someone decided to sue you. For that you need liability insurance and appropriate waivers. A club/soc status means that no one profits apart from the soc. All you need to do (usually) is make sure you have a chairman, secretary and treasurer etc and that all members have the right to see your accounts. Oh, and a constitution though our bank never asked to see ours.You are safe from being made bankrupt if the club goes under (unless you are the person embezzling... in which case you get the full force of the law)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
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Prodigal
Group: Eos Staff
Last Login: Yesterday @ 7:25 PM
Posts: 662,
Visits: 3,008
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| Thanks for all the responses! The intention was always, even as a company, to put any surpluses we might make straight back into the system (whether for props or kit or whatever), rather than drawing a salary or anything (although ideally we wouldn't be out of pocket either, although I appreciate that this might be a bit ambitious...). I think the key thing about a separate bank account for me is the transparency over what happens with the money; I was a charity trustee for a while, which I guess has made me a bit twitchy about this stuff. But needing two signatures on cheques and keeping the system's finances separate from my own seems like good organisational practice, if potentially annoying at times. I'm still a bit unclear about how we'd work as a club/society given that we won't have members as such. Any ideas? Either way, I'm pretty much convinced to have Insurrection LRP Ltd. struck off the register at Companies House. Cheers all!
---
Joe Rooney - Battle Vegan
Insurrection LRP: high fantasy in a dystopian setting.
Event Two: 17th-19th April 2009. Book now for £20 discount!
Bladelands: Raoul Ortez - apostate, medium, bodyguard and vicious lunatic
EOS: staff (probably the best job in LRP!)
Joe R's LARPCard
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I do talk a good fight
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 10:26 PM
Posts: 1,871,
Visits: 5,838
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IMO, you can better achieve "transparency over the money", if that's a concern, by publishing some form of your accounts (either by event or by year), on your website or message-board.
Personally I don't mind people making a profit out of a good event (I do object to people claiming not to make a profit, but then running a shit event which doesn't appear to have had any money spent on it). But, if I did want to only go to LRP events that were non-profit-making and ploughed all the money back into the system, I would be far more convinced this was going on by having a look at a profit & loss breakdown (even if I'd paid my cheque to Dave Good-Event-Organiser) than by the fact that it was run by a limited company or even a society.
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
Riftworld: Rossar Kuug ("Clearly mad, because he thinks he's a Com-Trow Skirmisher" - Aela)
Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
"My other oversized foam weapon is THE LORD" -- Questionable Content
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Heroic Knight
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Monday, November 17, 2008 3:23 PM
Posts: 119,
Visits: 1,003
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| If you set up a club you have to have members, you have to have an AGM and you run the risk of being voted of your own system!! (unlikely but possible) IMO if you are worried about transparency, accountability etc, then set yourself up with a new basic current account in your name. Then use that account for all transactions relating to the system. As long as you have a double entry daybook or similar system AND you don't actually try drawing any money personally calling it salary or dividends or whatever you will have no problems with Revenue and Customs. Like othes have said I don't know anyone who would not gladly send a payment made payable to an event organiser, let's face it, this is a hobby, the majority of systems are run by people with busy day jobs who are doing this because they enjoy it, not because they want to spend hours filling in paperwork, tax returns, etc. ps Stop stressing, sit back and enjoy it!!
__________________________________________ Faded Glory - Sgt Tellos, Warriors of Light Skullduggery - Mortimer, Master At Arms of House Fortuna Pass me another Elf, Sergeant. This one's split!! I Am More Than A Fish
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