The thing with both of these is that they are both based on personal value judgements, one person's idea of fun is not necessarily another person's idea of fun. Ditto for plot, so in effect you're making the game better for yourself, but this can often be detrimental to other people's fun.

In almost every game I've played, at some point someone has always metagamed or cheated or both, with the excuse "I decided it would improve the plot/fun of the game if I did this" (Which is almost universally seen as 'a good thing' -you can get away with almost any form of cheating/metagaming if you say  you did it to improve the plot/fun) 

What do you think??

And is it necessarily a bad thing? Without going into too much detail, my Artificer character has an important decision to make. Why shouldnt I choose the option that provides the best opportunity for future roleplaying?

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It is not a competition. It is a web forum.

One thing I always consider in situations like this is: Would that player do something detrimental to their character because it would improve the enjoyment of others in the game? If the answer is yes then they have the right motives. If no, then they are metagaming for personal advantage rather than game advantage. Some of the best and most satisfying roleplaying I have ever had was due to me or someone else deliberately  taking an IC action which they knew OOC (if not IC) would screw them up royally purely because they knew that this is what their character would do in the circumstances. Best example of this was my Vikings character who in a sudden attack of guilt and a realisation that someone he owed allegience to was likely to get blamed for something he had done, decided to admit to his evil crime and ended up executed for it. If I had been metagaming (and I admit, I did consider this) I *could* have got away with it but I decided that my character was both vaguely honourable and loyal to his employer and so was not prepared to let said employer take the fall.

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The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God...

Ruins of Empire

1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester

Well, whether or not its a bad thing does depend on your point of view.. The thing is, with any larp, everyone will have their own different take on the game, its spirit, how it should be played etc. The one fixed point within a game is its rules, which are (or should be!) the thing we all agree on (or at least agree to abide by). changing these rules, for whatever reason breaks this agreement. (which I think is a bad thing).

I'll deal with fun, plot, and now roleplaying separately..

The thing with 'roleplaying' and 'oppurtunity to roleplay' is that anything you do IC is roleplaying, and anything (including nothing) can provide you with an opportunity to roleplay. The only difference is whether or not you consider your roleplaying to be 'useful' or 'meaningful', which are purely OOC personal opinions.

You might roleplay in a way you think is both useful and meaningful, while someone else might think it nothing more than 'fluff' - or vice versa. Anything you do to provide an opportunity to roleplay in a certain way will denie the opportunity to roleplay a different way.

When it comes to plot, the thing is that (like roleplaying) anything you do IC is plot. any interpretation of plot is purely OOC personal opinion.

Ditto for fun.

A further thing with the concept of fun is that I personally find it offensive and condescending that you think that you must do things for me to enjoy. I'm quite capable of having fun without it constantly being placed in my lap.

I'm an adult, don't protect me.

Lets take an example. Imagine there are a group of adventurers in a tavern. An assassin (totally unnoticed) manages to poison someone's drink. The effects of this poison are "fall unconcious immediately, die after 15 minutes".

The victim thinks "pah, this isn't fun, it would be more fun/it would provide a memorable scene/it would provide an opportunity to roleplay if I have some dramatic last words"

The victim then clutches his throat, gasps "aaagggh POISON", and then collapses..

By doing this, in addition to adding drama etc. (maybe) you have.

1) Denied any healers the chance of roleplaying a frenzied attempt to diagnose the problem (was it poison, was it a disease, was it a curse, was it natural causes, maybe he'd just pissed!)

2) Denied the poisoner the chance of killing without leaving a clue (the poisoner may have spent days/weeks/months researching and making this poison - you've just meant he's wasted his time)

3) By clutching your throat, you've implied this is an effect of the poison (it isn't) which makes linking this poisoning to any others much harder. (if everyone decides to make up there own symptoms linking all these case may be impossible)

You may even decide "pah, it says I die after 15 minutes, that's not fun. It would enhance the game if I decide to live if the healer roleplays well enough"

By doing this you've

1) (as above) meant that all the effort the poisoner has gone through has been a waste.

2) Denied the poisoner a kill. The poisoner may well be trying to create a rep for himself as a 100% successful killer, which isn't possible if you decide to live. "umm, I dunno boss, I gave him five times the lethal dose of manbane. maybe this guy's superhuman?"

3) Denied the chance for the onlookers in the pub to be shocked that this sort of think can happen..

4) Denied the chance for the healer to feel 'useless' and roleplay that.

plus many more...

See what I'm getting at?

It is not a competition. It is a web forum.

Generally speaking I agree with his point through perhaps would express it differently myself.

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<insert really amusing sig here>

Yes, my position is 'simulationist' probably almost exclusively so (In that drama and anrrative are not soething I consider). I try toi avoid the word though because not everyone accepts/agrees with the GNS model, and also some people think 'simulationist' means re-enactment.

<insert really amusing sig here>