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Apprentice
 
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Marios (1/20/2008)
Not in my experience, it doesn't! I think it works out at close range during midday - but at that range you're generally already aware whether they are in or out. How can you be aware if someone walking to the OOC area is IC or OOC just by looking at them?
Marios (1/20/2008)
Generally, on dying IC friends carried me to the Church and there was an IC memorial service (not many cultures just take people to the woods and throw them away). It does mean that after the service you can just slide your armband on, leave a cloak behind where the corpse is and roll out the rear of the tent.
The point is Maelstrom has necromancy and eidolons. It's extremely significant whether you catch a small glimpse of someone you thought was dead/you think is a demon a long way off.[quote] I´ve only been to one funeral in Sweden. Me and the other soldiers dug a grave for our fallen brother, carried him there, followed by those who wanted to watch and the mourning. Priest said some prayers, led us in a song. We soldiers sung our own song (funnier and with better rhymes), and then they all left. Apart from me who stayed to fill the grave. When all were out of sight, I asked him to get up, went ooc for a short time to remove my eyepatch to remember how it felt to heve depth perception and have a short chat with him. I then went ic again, refilled the grave and left. The dead left unseen (the grave being close to the ooc area) and returned with a new character.
[quote]Marios (1/20/2008)
As regards LT, the level of IC/OOC blur is the thing which put and puts me off the most. I never get comfortable with the half-in/half-out camps - I would be a lot happier if you could look around and think "we're all in our OOC camp cooking burgers and catching up OOC - either I should leave or put an armband on and make it clear". I agree that IC and OOC camps should be separated. Since you´re not playing 24h, there´s no need for a single camp. But why put on an armband if you´re ooc in the ooc-area? If you´re there you´re ooc, if not, why are you there.
Marios (1/20/2008)
I think it's easy if you're not poor/an inexperienced larper to wonder loudly why other people don't spend that extra money on kit/don't know that handweaving is really very easy if you just know where the buy the cotton from ... I'm not convinced it does any good (unless you're willing to put your money where your mouth is and run a stall selling these objects that aren't much more expensive - if you're right, you'll do well from it). When I started playing in sweden 2006, my economy sucked. (the reason for me returning was that I could no longer afford living in UK) I still played a soldier in ok costume, including chainmail (borrowed an axe). Economy still sucked 2007, when I got a lot of new gear, a sword and dagger, two new sets of costume and a bloody expensive woolen cloak. I still had money left for Warhammer stuff. It is not impossible to get by on small means, if you´re a bit creative and looks for the right price. To return to the previous example of pen, scetchpad and can: Charcoal costs about a quid, and you get a lot of it, so you can share with friends. Aquarelle paper might be slighly expensive, but if you think it costs to much, you can always rough up a more modern-looking paper. Just taking the paper from the scethbook is also better than taking the whole damn scetchbook. A clay jug might be harder to find. I found a wooden cup at dollarstores for close to nothing. The bottle can just be a cleaned winebottle or similar.My own economy is a bit better right now, but I still go for the cheaper alternative of making my own costume when possible.
Marios (1/20/2008)
I note in those threads that people referenced a consistent decline in numbers compared to a consistent rise in the UK/Germany - it's possible that an increasingly narrow interpretation of who has the minimum gear/resources/time to engage in larp might be to blame.Maybee, but a lot of players and organisers are offering new players the opportunity to borrow what they need. There are a lot of "beginner events" with lesser demands on quality. If there is a decline in larpers, I think it´s more likely because of the lack of combatoriented larps that kids want. And there´s always a fluctuation in players depending on what movies and tv-shows are popular. LotR caused a boom, as the tv series Barda (filmed larp for kids) are causing a boom among the young, and the movies about Arn (Swedish crusader) will probably cause a boom among older people.
Marios (1/20/2008)
That's a bit of an empty answer, though, unless you clarify what 'fit the game' means (narrativists and player lead gamers can both use that phrase to mean entirely different things) it's tautologous. Usually the organisers tell the players what their "Vision" is. This explains what fits the game and what freedom the players have. Usually, the only real restrictions is in what character you can choose, although most are open for suggestions. The end result is always open, as well as how you play your character (at least as far as I know).
Marios (1/20/2008)
Okay - this to me seems to contradict the stress on not dropping OOC/trying to avoid OOC influences. Players show respect - characters don't (unless you're willing to play a limited range of characters). I think that makes sense in games which aren't particularly serious, but in hardcore games I'd expect people to self-manage (if we're all assumed to be IC, there shouldn't be any scope for guessing as to whether someone is having OOC problems - if they are, maybe they should take a break). Safe-words, or just the simple method of saying: ooc-take it easy, are often the suggestion to problems like this. The alternative might mean that some people with a bit of mental baggage can´t play at a lot of events. It is something that´s discussed now and then. Of course there are ways to avoid being ooc, such as surendering, running away, being passive and so on, but that is not always possible.
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Apprentice
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| @ChessyPig: I cant say anything about pre-generated characters. The only time I´ve used pre-generated was when I started playing D&D at a bookstore in Carlisle. I don´t know much about convention-gaming. But I have heard about one swedish convention-larp where the players just were their normal characters visiting the convention, but secretly were members of the Illuminati and had secret meetings and conversations now and then. About characters that don´t need to eat. That don´t happen too often here, as most play mortal characters. Phone a ref? Heretic! All phones should be banned! Though it has been suggested that players carry a phone when running of into the woods, in case they geet lost.
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Apprentice
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Marios (1/20/2008)
I think there are two ways to go - either you have a very small group of people who consciously decide to roll with anything their friends do and suppress any seeds of doubt or you have a broader group but everyone is their own policeman. I think people divide over the second issue. Personally, I find that having a set of public rules/mechanics means much less OOC thinking for me rather than more - because by having a specific set of rules which define cheating, everything else is effectively permitted.Well, there´s something in sweden we call "larp sense". Basically it means that you, deep inside, remember to try and make the game fun for all. Since it´s quite hard to make combat look good, you focus not on hacking the other guy to bits, but on roleplaying the fight. You circle eachother, yell insults, feint and retreat, instead of just gutting the bastard with ease cause the player is a lousy fighter. This makes it more fun for those watching. When it comes to cheating, do you cheat when reading a book? Read the last chapter first to find out how it ends? Or maybee fastforward a movie to the last five min´s? I doubt it. So why would anyone cheat at lrp? I find it easier to not have any hits and stuff to count. To me it comes naturally to try and act as if I wee hit by a real weapon (once I got the idea, that is).
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Wag
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Tarnfire (1/20/2008)
How can you be aware ifsomeone walking to the OOC area is IC or OOC just by looking at them?
This is response to your suggestion that putting a finger in the air is sufficient (it is during midday at close range - otherwise, in my experience, it isn't).
Tarnfire (1/20/2008)
I agree that IC and OOC camps should be separated. Since you´re not playing 24h, there´s no need for a single camp. But why put on an armband if you´re ooc in the ooc-area? If you´re there you´re ooc, if not, why are you there.
Not sure what you're responding to here. At LT, there are no clear IC/OOC areas (OOC camp _is_ IC camp). At Maelstrom, OOC camping is clearly OOC - but you'll normally have to walk through several large IC areas to get to it (and back in again). Sometimes you can merge it naturally with an IC promenade over to the merchant's stalls - sometimes not (passing prayers on to the ref team, say).
Tarnfire (1/20/2008)
It is not impossible to get by on small means
Yes, but unless you're actually lending kit personally/giving this advice to someone asking "How do I do this on a student budget?" you're not saying anything more useful than "Well, why don't they get better paid jobs/work harder?". I find maths really easy because I enjoy playing with equations - but, oddly, explaining that to people doesn't seem to increase the number of people who are good at maths. It's either important enough for me to take positive actions to start teaching people maths or it's not (and I can choose to avoid the mathematically illiterate). Either way, nothing is gained by saying "I don't understand why so many people have trouble with maths when it's actually really quite easy!". Do you see what I mean?
Tarnfire (1/20/2008)
Usually the organisers tell the players what their "Vision" is. This explains what fits the game and what freedom the players have. Usually, the only real restrictions is in what character you can choose, although most are open for suggestions. The end result is always open, as well as how you play your character (at least as far as I know).
Again, that's a vacuous statement (although I agree that clear labelling is good). What you count as 'real restrictions' may not be what I count as 'real restrictions' (ditto 'open'), since that's likely to depend on what you're used to having restricted. So far your description covers almost every (well-labelled) UK larp.
Tarnfire (1/20/2008)
Safe-words, or just the simple method of saying: ooc-take it easy, are often the suggestion to problems like this. The alternative might mean that some people with a bit of mental baggage can´t play at a lot of events. It is something that´s discussed now and then. Of course there are ways to avoid being ooc, such as surendering, running away, being passive and so on, but that is not always possible.
In the minds of most UK larpers, I think the concept of "safe-words" is tightly coupled with BDSM.
Isn't the definition of mental baggage precisely that - that you can't trust yourself in as many situations as you would otherwise? I can see that, in a game where immersion/realism isn't viewed as terribly important, the desire of one player not to be shouted at might be perceived as more important than the desire of other players to roleplay their characters.
From my perspective, the difference between a light-hearted game and a serious game is that players take responsibility for resolving any issues (whether it be a need to get at insulin regularly or palpitations when shouted at) that could reasonably arise (relies on the organisers communicating clearly what might reasonably arise).
If have glass bone disorder and might die if bumped into/struck by a weapon then I don't think you can turn up to a standard event and demand that everyone keep always in mind the OOC necessity not to bump/strike you.
Marios
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I do talk a good fight
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I quite like systemless games, or system-light games, but they're certainly open to abuse -- I've seen this happen often.
Sometimes it's not even really abuse. If you play a character who is going to (quite realistically) fall over & die as soon as you're struck by a weapon, and I play a character who (equally realistically, if you look at, say, medal-winners or heroes in the real world) is going to just carry on and get the job done, however many wounds I take, you might think I'm cheating. The refs might even complain, because I'm not being "realistic" enough. In fact I'm behaving according to my version of reality, which is all I can do, because the organisers have been foolish enough to require me to do so; to say that there is no written consensus as to how many hits I can take before I fall over.
There is a concept called the "tyranny of structurelessness" which applies here. A structureless setup or systemless game still has a structure or system; it's just an unwritten one. It's unfair, and divisive, because one either "gets" the consensus, the organisers' vision, or one doesn't; if one doesn't, one isn't educated about the rules, but is instead socially excluded, called a cheat, or not invited to more games. Much more fair to just write it down -- even if you say, "Roleplay your hits, and feel free to fall over earlier than this if you're playing a weak character or get hit with a really good blow, but you really should have fallen over by the time you take 8 hits, or we'll think you're cheating."
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
Riftworld: Rossar Kuug ("Clearly mad, because he thinks he's a Com-Trow Skirmisher" - Aela)
Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
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Heroic Knight
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Tarnfire, everything you've stated rather indicates to me that you'd actually quite enjoy Maelstrom, apart from having to stat a character, use an armband occasionally and deal with Lammies.
There are ways around all of these little problems in Mael.
Whilst you and Marios have gotten bogged down in mechanics, can I just bring up the excellent roleplaying opportunities at the event, where in order to get -anything- you're after, you have to roleplay your little socks off. The game ethos you seem to be seeking can be found amongst a good chunk of the Mael players.
Furthermore, the majority of the stats available encourage roleplay. Yes, there are some people who can hit harder than others, but they'll need specialist equipment to do so which they are going to have to track down and buy. Others have produce to sell, some the means and reason to buy it.
Ascendancy: Major Hoyght, Marine officer, Archipelago
Dr Flay, Horologist and Alchemist - www.AscendancyLRP.co.uk -
Maelstrom: '?' -All round enigma
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Cold Water and Brass Tacks
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| Erm... I dont really see the difference between 'Nordic LRP' as described by Tarnfire and an improvised theatre workshop.
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