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Heroic Knight
 
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Magical thinking. Let me define. To me it is made up of shockingly unproven or wishful IF/THEN statements. Example:
IF i light this candle and chant THEN pixies will do my dishes.
IF i pray to the little baby Jesus THEN my husband will not be killed down in Iraq.
IF i close my eyes and hum THEN the government will go away.
IF i go to war with Iraq THEN god will be pleased with me and make music in my head.
I think magical thinking is based on a fundamental refusal to accept the world as it is, and to substitute reason for wooly-headedness.
My question is; why do otherwise quite sane and sensible people insist on using fundamentally-broken IF/THEN statements? How can the embrace of broken IF/THEN statements be seen as a virtue by any sane person?
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Champion
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| To help them cope? I'd like to think that people who pray, pray for the strength to cope with their husband being in iraq, and possibly not coming back. Certainly most of the people I know who set store by prayer dont use it like a wish list but as a mechanism to deal with issues that are causing them anxiety. And if it helps them cope with the circumstance in the meantime, then thats their choice. I think that for some people in some places prayer can be a positive thing for them. I see it as a way of them getting in touch with their ability to think positively. Sometimes, the only person you can tell about the terrible things you're feeling/have done/have had done to you is your imaginary buddy... Its not therapy, but it can help.
But if you really *want* to bug Me and are still trying because I didnt put the damm contact field in properly.... Thegamefinisher@yahoo.co.uk
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Wag
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Andy Raff (6/21/2006)
Magical thinking. Let me define. To me it is made up of shockingly unproven or wishful IF/THEN statements.
But, crucially, not refuted (particularly if you don't set up a formal system of refutation).
If supernatural/divine beings exist, then they could take propitiation in any form.
Nor is explicit rationality (I do this because it increases the chance of desired consequence X) naturally superior to implicit rationality (I do this because I enjoy doing this, I'm happier if I don't pick holes in my reasoning). More data/more logical reasoning does not necessarily make for 'superior' outcome for anything short of omniscience (magical thinkers don't seem to be noticeably suffering from it in the whole).
Marios
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I do talk a good fight
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IF I'm a religious believer, THEN various scientific studies show that I'm more likely to be happy, healthy, and long-lived than IF I'm not.
IF I want to maximize health, happiness, and longevity, THEN it's time for me to pick a religion.
IF I choose to be a Gnostic, Thelemite, pagan, ritual magician, and Discordian THEN as well as receiving the benefits of general religiousity (see above) I also gain the following benefits (respectively): (a) I get to directly experience godhead without the need for a priest as an intercessor, suiting my anti-authoritarian tendencies; (b) I get to approach the whole "religion" thing from the perspective of scientific scepticism; (c) I get to dance round bonfires naked, with the protection of the law since what I'm doing is "religion"; (d) ritual magicians get to do far more of the "kinky sex cult" thing than most other religions, as well as having an excuse to buy cool magickal paraphernalia like swords and stuff; (e) my religion requires not only that I not take it entirely seriously, but also that I not take anything entirely seriously, which again is highly suited to my nature.
IF it so happens that any of this magick stuff actually works, THEN even better; as well as being happier, healthier, and more long-lived than most people, I will someday get to shag Angelina Jolie, if I light enough pink candles and sacrifice enough black cockerels.
IF you doubt my word on any of the above (surely not?!?), THEN just check out the thread in which Mr Dreadful claims that I closely resemble a 23-year-old genius, a chap 13 years my younger (I have the Elixir of Life to thank for that one, obviously; there have to *some* perks to the whole "ritual magician" thing).
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
Riftworld: Rossar Kuug ("Clearly mad, because he thinks he's a Com-Trow Skirmisher" - Aela)
Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
"My other oversized foam weapon is THE LORD" -- Questionable Content
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Artmeister
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I will someday get to shag Angelina Jolie, if I light enough pink candles and sacrifice enough black cockerels. So just how many of each do I need then....!!
There is no way you can disprove to me that all reality we percieve, was concieved in the mind of a plastic troll. Now hand me my pills.
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I do talk a good fight
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Dunno, still experimenting....
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
Riftworld: Rossar Kuug ("Clearly mad, because he thinks he's a Com-Trow Skirmisher" - Aela)
Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
"My other oversized foam weapon is THE LORD" -- Questionable Content
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Heroic Knight
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Grim (6/21/2006)
I will someday get to shag Angelina Jolie, if I light enough pink candles and sacrifice enough black cockerels.
So just how many of each do I need then....!!
A lot, thats why I invented H5N1.... who says science and magic can't co-exist 
____________________________________________________________
Idiots can be so much fun, thats why every village wants one....
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Heroic Knight
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Last Login: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:17 PM
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Praying for strength - and the like - is a gray area. I think it tends to encourage "magical thinking" but works under the placebo effect.
One of my complaints with magical thinking - and I have to say I find the whole "oooo! We have no proof that a giant beard in the sky who loves his children *doesn't* exist" to be spurious at best - is that it encourages people to light candles rather than (for example) get a career in the movies, work one's way up to parties with Angelina Jolie, and use all the charm and weirdo-sex-drive at one's disposal to get into bed with said Tomb Raider star.
Magical Thinking is dangerous because it encourages people to live in a fantasy world rather than in the real world.
You can experience unity with the goddhead by dropping acid. I find this infinitely preferable to religiosity.
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