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Prodigal
 
Group: Eos Staff
Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:30 PM
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I should say that the crafting rules are the one part of the system that is currently making me tear my hair out. Oli and I want to move to a situation where the only fixed price in the system is that of an unskilled human slave (10F), being used as the guarantee against which the Florin is secured. We want every other piece of equipment's cost to be set by the price mechanism. The problem comes with squaring that with common sense, playability, and everything else.
For example, we toyed with the idea of changing the costs for equipment given in the setting document to "Equipment Allowance" rather than using the IC currency, and giving Craft skill a number of Output Points (or something) instead of a Florin value. Some of the implications of these ideas started to bake our brains, though, so we've parked it for now. Commerce is an area we're looking at though.
---
Joe Rooney - Battle Vegan
Insurrection LRP: high fantasy in a dystopian setting.
Event Two: 17th-19th April 2009. Book now for £20 discount!
Bladelands: Raoul Ortez - apostate, medium, bodyguard and vicious lunatic
EOS: staff (probably the best job in LRP!)
Joe R's LARPCard
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Knight
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Today @ 1:04 AM
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Smileyface (6/24/2008)
Feinix (6/24/2008)
Same here, my original concept was going to be a plate wearer but after looking over things a few more times I'm having doubts. Aside from the rare moments when its unique protection might come in handy, Chainmail is an infinitely better choice (shame I don't own any) and even that is brushed aside by any ranged or magical attacks. Melee characters are looking like they're going to have a very difficult time comparatively
It does depend how the economy works though. Starting with plate looks like a bad idea, but if you start with leather and an intermediate level business skill, and there's a downtime market selling finished kit at roughly the prices starting kit is available, then using your 300 F per downtime to pick up plate doesn't look so stupid.
Until we know what shopping facilities are available we won't really be able to work out what the problems are. If NPC shops (either uptime or downtime or both) selling items at roughly the starting items cost exist, then it might make sense to wear plate/mail even without a repairer, because you can buy it in relatively cheap. With infinite re-stocking it might even make sense to buy new bits instead of repairing the old.
Of course, the downside of NPC shops like that would be that the crafting skills would then be a bit redundant. Intermediate crafting lets you make 75F of stuff per downtime. Intermediate business gets you 300F per downtime. Which would you like to go for?
Uptime-only NPC shops with limited amounts of stock might balance it all out. Stock levels are going to be tricky for the organisers though.
The cost was always a minor issue for me, I was actually talking abut its practical applications in combat. No matter how I look at it, anyone can defend against a melee by running away but melee seem able only to defend against other melee. The amount of magical damage that simply ignores armour from a distance is staggering. For example, I come in as a melee and play for three years, I beef myself up every way I can to the point of lopping off limbs and taking boulders to the chest with a smile, I'm still getting floored and, if I'm lucky, taken out of the fight by the first fireball sent my way. I can't dodge it, I can't block it and unless I spend a large chunk of my xp on a school I'm only average in, I can't resist it. I know you're trying to make a scary system but each time I read up on the rules I keep getting the feeling that half your players will be scared, because the other half can do all the scary stuff.
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So I may be small but trust me, I look big enough in my armour and what I lack in size I more than make up for in midget-berzerker-sword-waving-one-legged-foaming-mouth action! Just ask this small pile of mutilated bodyparts that used to be people looking at me funny.
I am NOT going to throw LARP safe hamsters at zombies... or frogs!
Maelstrom: Simon / Kendryck Veraletin (Retired)
Jade Empires: Akiko / Oren (Dead...ish)
Insurrection: Krull
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Champion
Group: Basic Members
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Smileyface (6/23/2008)
I'd expect them to become more common once they are supported - i.e. once some advanced-level repairers are in the game. Just not initially, is all. Especially when you think that an I-level repairer can fix an entire suit of leather from completely knackered to entirely working in 100 minutes, but it takes an A-level repairer to fix full chain in 200, or plate in 250.
Actually, that's a bit scary. You've been in a fight, and now you're waiting a few hours while your armour gets fixed. Realistic, but frightening.
More about the possibles of fun for the guy who has burnt all of his character points being A level repairer by event 2. Lets say there is a skirmish in which 5 suits of armour get knackered ... now people are wearing chain so that is 5x200 minutes that guy will be repairing armour for. Realistic/scary for the combat characters with no armour ... dull as all hell for the armour repair guy. You would find very few people willing to sit still repairing armour for more than 30 minutes. I would suggest for the sake of enjoyment for the craft characters that you kill the 'minutes per point' and set it as 'minutes per suit' increasing with the armours effectiveness. (Furs 5 mins - Plate 30 mins or so) I did ponder a support character for an orcish group, but when I saw armour repair rules I actually laughed
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Knight
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I tend to disagree with the idea that melee get it so bad when up against magic. While people that primarily play fighters seem to bring this idea up a lot, in practice the fighters seem to come out pretty well in that sort of match up (at least on a PvP basis).
For all you can run away from combat, melee types can swipe at you for as long as they want, and probably only need to hit you a couple of times. Meanwhile, magic types / archers have limited supplies of power/projectiles, and can likely get off about one shot before getting mullered (ie made into a creamy yogurt) by the rapidly approaching tin plated slab of muscle.
Its the whole scissors/paper/stone cliche - if there wasn't something that could seriously slap down melee types, then all other character types would be redundant. My inclination on Resist Magic is that it's cost is still fairly low for allowing primary fighters to negate one of their weaknesses - particularly as the cost is similar for other characters to buy the equivalent skills against physical attacks.
Still, its difficult to properly judge Insurrection at present, without seeing the balance of power level vs accessibility for spells.
It's worth noting that no character can start as gifted in the School of Magic - so the only potential magical powerhouses are humans with Faith - which plays into the hate (+fear) of rebel humans in quite a cool way.
LT - Evan Kinmarc - Scout-y, Healer-y, Ritual-y Armengarian Type
EOS - Luca Demetrius Shard - Rapidly Cooling Corpse
Insurrection - Dr Julius von Bismarck - "I love the smell of applied science in the morning!"
"Why are we digging? I'm not sure really. Probably something to do with Genetics."
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Knight
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Today @ 1:04 AM
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But that's the thing, with the way it stands now a high level magic user only needs to get off one shot at the strongest plated slab of meat in the game to render them 'proper fecked'. Whereas a high level sword swinger, while still only needing one good shot in a lot of cases, has to get within touching distance of his unarmoured and therefore probably faster opponent.
I understand that this could actually come from the fact that without a proper game I'm still ignorant of a lot of the rules and mechanics, casters may require a few seconds where they can't move to prepare a spell or there may be talismans/blessings available to protect against magic for example. But for every system where you're right and melee fears turn out to be unfounded, there's another where someone's managed to get to the stage where he can (and I've seen this) run away from 4 armoured people occasionally looking over his shoulder and ripping a piece of paper to cast a spell, rinsing and repeating until they're all down and he calmly walks over to loot with a pocket still stuffed with paper.
I'm not trying to complain or whinge and I'll probably stick with my melee character anyway because that's what I enjoy but I'd rather voice my concerns and be proved completely wrong than stay quiet and end up splatted by what I'd been worried about.
Quick question of opinion to end, if melee are rocks and magic users are paper, who are the scissors? Obviously it's people with magic resistance but what else do you think would help specialise them?
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So I may be small but trust me, I look big enough in my armour and what I lack in size I more than make up for in midget-berzerker-sword-waving-one-legged-foaming-mouth action! Just ask this small pile of mutilated bodyparts that used to be people looking at me funny.
I am NOT going to throw LARP safe hamsters at zombies... or frogs!
Maelstrom: Simon / Kendryck Veraletin (Retired)
Jade Empires: Akiko / Oren (Dead...ish)
Insurrection: Krull
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Christopher Tookey's lovechild.
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Feinix (6/24/2008)
No matter how I look at it, anyone can defend against a melee by running away
At the risk of sounding a little historical, heavy/shock melee doesn't exist to wipe out the enemy unless they're fool enough to stand against it. It exists to take ground. You only ever get to kill them if they don't or can't run away. As a corrollary, armies composed of unsupported melee infantry lose pretty consistantly.
Feinix (6/24/2008)
The cost was always a minor issue for me, I was actually talking abut its practical applications in combat. No matter how I look at it, anyone can defend against a melee by running away but melee seem able only to defend against other melee. The amount of magical damage that simply ignores armour from a distance is staggering. For example, I come in as a melee and play for three years, I beef myself up every way I can to the point of lopping off limbs and taking boulders to the chest with a smile, I'm still getting floored
Yeah, but that isn't in this system. We don't know what the spells do in this system (unless you've got a spell list), so we don't know whether the basic damage dealing spell is going to be five shots per day each doing one damage or whether it's going to be fifty shots a day each doing five through damage.
We don't even know that there is a damage-dealing spell yet... though it seems likely.
The balance in magic is in a number of factors: casting times, number of uses, damage done, damage properties (through or not being the biggie). Since right now people without the various magic sheets have no idea what those factors are like, we've got no idea whether there's a balance problem or not. So you may as well play once and find out. Either that or try and get the sheets and at least complain about something concrete.
All that said, I tend to agree that plate is rubbish in LARP* due to the weight and the amounts of through, but mail is usually a reasonable tradeoff.
*at least, all the ones I've played or read the rules for.
This game features the following defensive options for someone who is primarily melee-minded:
1) Taking a big shield to stop arrows (which it probably will).
2) Taking a bow/crossbow to shoot back (which you can do for no skill point cost).
3) Playing a non-human and taking the resistance skill from the school of magic.
4) Playing it stealthy with those tricksy school of life skills.
I think you'll be alright, really.
Narcisse (6/24/2008)
I tend to disagree with the idea that melee get it so bad when up against magic. While people that primarily play fighters seem to bring this idea up a lot, in practice the fighters seem to come out pretty well in that sort of match up (at least on a PvP basis).
It does in some systems. You didn't try FnH, but melee characters in that were pretty much redundant. A mage could wound through armour at maximum hearing range, and the only advantage melee characters got was extra armour hits. If it was a PvP game there wouldn't be any melee characters still playing it, because they'd die first time they fought a mage and not bother coming back.
There was another system whose name I've forgotten that allowed eight uses of a power every time you bought it. So you could buy double with and inflict an extra point of damage in combat if and when you landed a hit up to eight times, or you could buy the spell "Wound" and do eight points of (possibly through - never clarified) damage at range. Go on, you choose.
I totally agree that it's too early to tell with this one though.
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Eos: Diego Gatito - the worst ninja in the world.
Insurrection: Marcus de Selene - the worst price negotiator in the world.
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Knight
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Last Login: Yesterday @ 11:42 PM
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Noted that some of the high level calls are potentially quite sick, but the relative xp cost of getting them and their likely rarity because of this will hopefully balance it out. (btw, I don't tend to play mages, I just don't think they are over-powered relative to warriors in 'most' cases.)
I'm not sure you need a scissors, as the weaknesses of magic users and warrior tend to balance each other out, but if you were going for one, how about scouts? Lightly armoured, fast moving, and able to drop them before they get the spell vocals off. Unable to stand up to fully specialised warriors, and while mages could drop them, its a poor exchange of power relative to a heavy fighter. Probably best represented as a sort of jack-of-all-trades type character in Insurrection.
LT - Evan Kinmarc - Scout-y, Healer-y, Ritual-y Armengarian Type
EOS - Luca Demetrius Shard - Rapidly Cooling Corpse
Insurrection - Dr Julius von Bismarck - "I love the smell of applied science in the morning!"
"Why are we digging? I'm not sure really. Probably something to do with Genetics."
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Knight
Group: Basic Members
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