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Champion
 
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I was talking to a french LRPer (again?, yeah sue me) anyway he is a member of a committee for LRP in France. They repesent the hobby and come from differnt LRP groups to be its face. Two of the things they have managed to do is 1) Get recognition from the department of Sport as a hobby. Which has 2) helped with the insurance side of things. After submitting lots of data on what happens accidents etc, now any Lrp group can say we do this and a box is ticked instead of everything having to be explained.
The insurance aspect may become interesting if insurance companies can work in other countries. See this EU thing could be good for you.
That could also kick off a scene here in Ireland since I am told its almost impossible to get insurance here.
Having a lrp committe might be hard to set up, dont know if LT, PD and CP and smaller groups etc would want to work together, but its an idea to debate at least.
As usual its a vauge post lacking real info, which I can try and track down if people ask questions.
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Wag
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White Balance (7/5/2007)
Having a lrp committe might be hard to set up, dont know if LT, PD and CP and smaller groups etc would want to work together, but its an idea to debate at least.
Committees scare me. It's the sight of a room full of people talking but not actually doing anything. It gives me the fear... Course you can always do it by email, then there's no chance of anyone seeing anyone doing anything... 
We wouldn't "take part" unless the committee was doing something that was going to be very useful to our players. For insurance, we just talked to Chris-TT and that sorted that problem out and no committee required... I'd be happy to support any endeavour which might result in a photo-opportunity of the culture secretary stood next to an orc because that would be funny.
But we'd be very happy to lend our support to a sensible committee of LRPers who were doing something sensible that helped the hobby. Yeah that's vague, deliberately. I have no idea what such a committee might actually do.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Wag
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| At the risk of kicking off another insurance debate (please, no more discussions on why we need insurance or whatever!) I think the current situation with regards to insurance is that there is only one company who is willing to do it without massive premiums at the moment and that is the one which deals with the Adventurers Guild as run by Chris TT. I suppose a committee may be able to represent the hobby in such a way as to make such things as insurance easier. A better goal, however, may be to do good PR elsewhere such as among the scouts association (where we get most of our sites from) and among various other official organisations who may be able to lend us some clout (councils, charities etc). However, Matt's points about committees does, I think, represent the views of an awful lot of LRPers in this country with regards to formal processes of organisation. I suspect part of the reason may be that we all have larger egos than can fit in the average committee room so we always clash. We are also possibly the number one producer of apathy in the world. If we could be arsed to mine it, we could supply the entire world with enough apathy to keep it sat on its arse for all eternity. There is also an issue of the very disparate politics involved in LRP. Pagga and Rule 7 have amply demonstrated between them that there is no way to represent all the views of all LRpers adequetly in an appropriately democratic system that wasn't basically the anarchy we have now. About the only thing we seem to all agree on is that the Hobby we do is LRP. And even then we argue over the spelling and the semantics  In short, I can see this collapsing into a chaos of backbiting and/or complete non-co-operation. That would not give the *right* impression to the people we are trying to impress. It would be an *accurate* impression but not one we would really wish to give... Having said all of this, I am really hoping that LRP can prove me wrong... for one thing, it would be nice to be able to delegate any PR style things to a national body who can represent the hobby in a professional way. I think good things have already been done by previous media efforts (the recent tough crowd show, some newspaper articles etc as well as the recent popularity of films that have LRP related content) as well as by the Foreign Fields Fair earlier this year (which had non LRP attendees none of whom seemed unduly scared...). We need to build on those successes and get the word out there to more places and an organised group of dedicated, professional people with a mission to pimp the hobby where ever they can would be useful. The trick is to start small and not organised... I think our starting point should be a concerted effort by everyone to pitch in and help however they can - everyone applying whatever special skills, training or contacts they have to the final goal. Eventually, by a process of evolution, we may end up with a formal committee and elections and stuff like that. However, if you start with the committee and the elections and so on I think we'll just be inviting trouble...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
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Wag
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balor (7/5/2007)
At the risk of kicking off another insurance debate (please, no more discussions on why we need insurance or whatever!) I think the current situation with regards to insurance is that there is only one company who is willing to do it without massive premiums at the moment and that is the one which deals with the Adventurers Guild as run by Chris TT.
We used to arrange our own insurance. Basically there are lots of companies that will provide event insurance in various forms, a quick web search should turn up most of them. It was expensive, but we need to insure 4000 people a year... The price was proportional. We used Chris' policy because it was a) cheaper and b) better than we could obtain independently. We pay a lot more than the other people using the policy (which is fair enough, we're bigger and so a much bigger risk) but it's still better than anything we could arrange ourselves.
So I don't think it's so hard to get insurance, just not possible to get a better deal than Chris TT is providing at the moment. I agree however that another insurance debate is not helpful.
I suppose a committee may be able to represent the hobby in such a way as to make such things as insurance easier. A better goal, however, may be to do good PR elsewhere such as among the scouts association (where we get most of our sites from) and among various other official organisations who may be able to lend us some clout (councils, charities etc).
I think a committee could do some useful things. Maintaining a high quality website with resources like "what is LRP?" "How do I get started" and so on could be useful. So could producing high quality material that smaller clubs could support site applications with. A crap website or black and white photo-copied material would be about as welcome as a turd in your breakfast cereal however. Do it well, or not at all.
However, Matt's points about committees does, I think, represent the views ofan awful lot of LRPers in this country with regards to formal processes of organisation.
And I've worked with some of the best...
I suspect part of the reason may be that we all have larger egos than can fit in the average committee room so we always clash.We are also possibly the number one producer of apathy in the world. If we could be arsed to mine it, we could supply the entire world with enough apathy to keep it sat on its arse for all eternity.
I didn't see a world of difference when I worked in academia to be honest. I don't think LRP has the monopoly on being shit. LRPers are just human beings at the end of the day. Put five in a committee and four people will organize and one will do the work... I suspect Aesop probably has a fable for it and everything...
There is also an issue of the very disparate politics involved in LRP. Pagga and Rule 7 have amply demonstrated between them that there is no way to represent all the views of all LRpers adequetly in an appropriately democratic system that wasn't basically the anarchy we have now. About the only thing we seem to all agree on is that the Hobby we do is LRP. And even then we argue over the spelling and the semantics
Again, it's worth pointing out that I don't think we're that different to other hobbies in this respect. And they manage it. Or at least some of them do. Are you a Union or a Rugby League man? WWF or the other one. Money, politics and power - humans don't like to share. You can overcome it, but it's not easy.
In short, I can see this collapsing into a chaos of backbiting and/or complete non-co-operation. That would not give the *right* impression to the people we are trying to impress. It would be an *accurate* impression but not one we would really wish to give...
That thought doesn't really worry me. I can't imagine us ever actually getting to meet anyone... If we did, it would only be by papering over these cracks. If the committee can get that far, I'm sure they can refrain from attacking each other in the Culture Secretaries office....
The trick is to start small and not organised... I think our starting point should be a concerted effort by everyone to pitch in and help however they can - everyone applying whatever special skills, training or contacts they have to the final goal. Eventually, by a process of evolution, we may end up with a formal committee and elections and stuff like that. However, if you start with the committee and the elections and so on I think we'll just be inviting trouble...
The reason people have committees is that generally there is a perceived need. I'm not at all clear how I would pitch in to some unspecified undefined unclear goal.
I think in this case, a very clear goal, a good idea on how to get there and a bunch of people willing to put the effort in is what is required. In 10 seconds flat that would be a committee regardless of what it called itself. It's when you have a committee without any one of the those three essential things, the goal, the method, the drive - that's when you're heading for nowhere land.
At the moment, this seems to be an unclear goal, no idea of how to get there and no-one to do the work. Otherwise known as an internet discussion forum...
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Champion
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The above is the kind of response I was expecting. Still I thought it would be interesting if there was possible way to represent the hobby. I think it would be a remarkable achievement IMO if something was formed.
As I understand it, in France their are a collection of smaller associations that don't compete for members like in the U.K where the hobby seems more national. i.e. in France where you live tends to decide which group you belong to. Also in French law is a way to set up non for profit hobby groups that are exempt from tax etc (Not 100% sure on the details), which probably helped in dealing with the government, as its something that's been around since 1910ish. Anyway it was explained to me by different people passionately as being important to how they operate.
Since the U.K seems to be edging to a more professional nature, with PD, the LT maybe CP being for profit companies. That would bring more egos and opinions. E.G. The stereotype of LT management, people would argue, means they wouldn't want to be involved with anything outside their own system.
I think Balor is right, it would need to work in principle from the bottom up otherwise people would get lost in grandiose concepts.
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Wag
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White Balance (7/5/2007)
The above is the kind of response I was expecting. Still I thought it would be interesting if there was possible way to represent the hobby. I think it would be a remarkable achievement IMO if something was formed.
Sorry White Balance, didn't mean to be overly negative. It's not an inherently bad idea and if it had clear momentum and was going somewhere I'd be very happy for PD to support it. I just think you need a clearer vision of where you going, why and how to get there. At the moment I don't really perceive any need for a national LRP organization.
Since the U.K seems to be edging to a more professional nature, with PD, the LT maybe CP being for profit companies. That would bring more egos and opinions. E.G. The stereotype of LT management, people would argue, means they wouldn't want to be involved with anything outside their own system.
Plus Labryinthe and a number of others. I get the impression that there is more commercial LRP about and certainly more avowedly commercial LRP (e.g. Hyborian Tales) than we often assume. I think it's generally true to say that any of the people who run large commercial LRP organizations will take the decisions that are in the best interest of their business, not the hobby. I certainly would.
I think Balor is right, it would need to work in principle from the bottom up otherwise people would get lost in grandiose concepts. Fair enough and good luck. I'd wait til you have a grandiose concept before I gave it my support though.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Champion
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Matt Pennington (7/5/2007)
I think in this case, a very clear goal, a good idea on how to get there and a bunch of people willing to put the effort in is what is required. In 10 seconds flat that would be a committee regardless of what it called itself. It's when you have a committee without any one of the those three essential things, the goal, the method, the drive - that's when you're heading for nowhere land.
At the moment, this seems to be an unclear goal, no idea of how to get there and no-one to do the work. Otherwise known as an internet discussion forum...
So any thoughts on what would be a good subject to focus the group on if it were to be set up. Is there anything people think 'you know, this would be better if the hobby as a whole was speaking'.
1) Scout camps has been brought up,
2) Insurance (not a debate on it, but say compiling stats to give to wary people),
3) Talking to the media, (although that tends to happen more at a local level),
4) Organising stuff like the LRP fair and having demos.
5) Or making a general about LRP website. There was at least two posts on rule7 saying 'I saw tough crowd and am interested'. The response was a few suggestions on different systems, but it was largely left up to the person. If a similar situation arose then there could be an info pack. So that people could have more of a way in, instead there is a danger they are lost with all the choice and just give up. (I'd be interested if anybody who is in that boat could say is that true/not true) I think Allens 'what is LRP' in the EOS rule guide is very good, I actually stopped to read it!
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