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Wag
 
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Ian Sturrock (6/22/2007)
But such a person is already unstable; someone looking at them funny down the pub could tip them over the edge, as could a particular scent that evokes a childhood memory, or a particular book they read.
Ian Sturrock (6/22/2007)
Society is getting ever more civilized, ever more removed from humanity's natural, innate violence.
If you read some of the books on evolutionary psychology (one day I really must read a book from the other side of the argument), I think probably the most important conclusion is that humanity's violence is both innate and perfectly "natural". It's really not a case that a person who is "tipped over the edge into violence" is unstable or somehow unusual. The point, as I see it, is that every human being is like that, we're all animals, we're all programmed for violence and if you are exposed to the right triggers it comes out in all of us. The picture of the individual who is somehow aberrant because he is so unstable is just a reflection of our ignorance and our utter determination to remain firmly ignorant and thereby convince ourselves that we're not like that.
Of course that could be construed as all the more reason to ban computer games, if we're all potential murderers and rapists, all the more reason to insert the cotton wool into life to make sure we don't encounter the "triggers" that provoke violent and aggressive responses. I think it's a fine idea, so long as you are more careful to identify the real triggers than people like Keith Vaz.
Human violence is a tragic thing, it's way past time science tackled the issue, it's far too important to leave to priests, sociologists, psychologists, politicians and other witch doctors.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Champion
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They have done tons of studdies and they have proved that games and violent media dont turn you into killers, they also did one that proved that killing in video games stimulateded the same part of the brain that killign in real life would (i wana know how hte hoocked up a killer to a machine whilst he was on a rampage) but the conclusion that this outlet actually made you less likley as it got it out of you
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Heroic Knight
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I don't see anywhere in this decision that indicates that the likelihood of inspiring violence was part of the decision. I can really get behind a decision by the BBFC to ban a game that is essentially a stalking/murder simulator purely on grounds that there are certain types of media we just don't want in this country (child porn, terrorist training aids etc) without having to be worried about the effect it will have on the player.
It's just basically disgusting, utterly lacking in artisitic merit and therefore it's reasonable to man it.
Nurture your minds with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic makes heroes.
Benjamin Disraeli
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I do talk a good fight
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Eudorus (6/22/2007)
It's just basically disgusting, utterly lacking in artisitic merit and therefore it's reasonable to man it.
Isn't a principle of a modern, free society that you can let people make their own decisions about stuff like that, though?
Otherwise shouldn't we ban all pornography, most movies, most novels, most LRP games, most everything? I'm sure you'll find SOMEONE in the country who regards most things as basically disgusting and utterly lacking in artistic merit. For example, I would apply both those phrases to a lot of TV -- Big Brother, ChuckleVision, Strictly Come Dancing -- but I wouldn't want to ban them because at the end of the day "disgusting" and "artistic merit" are matters of taste, rather than morals.
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PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
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I do talk a good fight
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Yes, Matt, I agree. I still need to borrow that de Waal (was it?) book from you -- maybe next Maelstrom? I've not read any books on evolutionary psychology, but I'm a Dad, see, and so I have personal experience of attempting to civilize an innately violent savage.
My suspicion is that people who can easily be triggered to violence, despite the civilizing influence of modern culture, haven't been very well exposed to said civilizing influence. It's the whole "brain as a self-patterning system" thing -- civilized culture makes physical changes to the brain on a daily basis as kids grow up, but so do uncivilized cultures, like having parents who are alcoholics or just uncaring, or hanging out with the wrong crowd. Obviously obsessive computer game play can also make physical changes to the brain, but it's (IMO) the obsession that's the problem, not the game.
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
Riftworld: Rossar Kuug ("Clearly mad, because he thinks he's a Com-Trow Skirmisher" - Aela)
Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
"My other oversized foam weapon is THE LORD" -- Questionable Content
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Prodigal
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Ian Sturrock (6/22/2007)
The bit you seem to have missed is that no-one has ever proved that violent entertainment makes people violent!
At worst, it might (only might) tip someone over the edge, someone who already has violent tendencies.It's a bit more than that; violent imagery is demonstrated to make already-violent people more likely to act in an aggressive and/or violent way. This is true both of TV/movies and video games. AnthonyK (6/22/2007)
They have done tons of studdies and they have proved that games and violent media dont turn you into killers, they also did one that proved that killing in video games stimulateded the same part of the brain that killign in real life would (i wana know how hte hoocked up a killer to a machine whilst he was on a rampage) but the conclusion that this outlet actually made you less likley as it got it out of youSuch media don't turn you into killers, I agree -- but, as I've said above, they make the already-violent more likely to act in that way.
The bit about "getting it out of you" is absolute 100% bollocks, unless things have changed dramatically in the two years since I was revising for my Forensic Psychology exam.
---
Joe Rooney, the Enemy Of Fun
Insurrection LRP: high fantasy in a dystopian setting.
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EOS: staff (probably the best job in LRP!)
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Squire
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Matt Pennington (6/22/2007)
If you read some of the books on evolutionary psychology (one day I really must read a book from the other side of the argument), I think probably the most important conclusion is that humanity's violence is both innate and perfectly "natural". Actually, though this is somewhat true, it isnt the full story. The reasons for humans success as a species is because of our ability to work in a community - much like hive creatures. Yes, violence is part of it, but it is specifically violence against other species, and other 'hives' or groups. (I know this isnt exactly the right way of putting it, since humans are not hive beings, but its a good enough analogy without going into the genetic background to the whole thing - which I'd be happy to do, but don't want to bore everyone) Of course, the reason people view violence as a terrible thing these days, is that they see the whole of humanity as a group, while the people commiting violence often see themselves as one group, and the people they commit violence against as another. I hate not going into detail, as I'm sure my words will be misinterpretted, but.. to sum up : Humans are a successful species because they can work in a group, allowing specialisation of tasks, benefitting the community as a whole. Therefore most violence cuts against the grain, and is not now a completely natural thing. Those who are violent are percieved as in some way flawed, and, to some degree, are. That didnt come out sounding half as good as I intended, but its friday, and I want to leave work and have a drink.
------------------------------------------ OOC: Dean (Beanie) Midgley Maelstrom: Gremory, Eidolon of the new world LJ: Wychboy
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I do talk a good fight
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raggedhalo (6/22/2007)
It's a bit more than that; violent imagery is demonstrated to make already-violent people more likely to act in an aggressive and/or violent way. This is true both of TV/movies and video games.
I've been entirely unconvinced that studies that claim to demonstrate this have proved a causal relationship. If you can point me at a decent online writeup of one, though, I'd be interested.
Where do we go from here, though? Surely people who are already violent should be locked up for being violent, rather than for watching violent images?
Alcohol makes already violent people more likely to behave aggressively or violently; should we ban alcohol, or should we ban aggression and violence?
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
Riftworld: Rossar Kuug ("Clearly mad, because he thinks he's a Com-Trow Skirmisher" - Aela)
Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
"My other oversized foam weapon is THE LORD" -- Questionable Content
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