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Heroic Knight
 
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Last Login: Saturday, October 04, 2008 5:20 PM
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Ok,
Its a hardskill magic idea based very vaguely on Mornington Crescent. (I should point out I hate 'MC' and many of the poeple who play it (or go on and on about playing it) but lets not dwell on such prejudice) I was looking at the Tube Map and I had a thought...
Mages get a 'map' of magical casting in character creation, their ability to cast magic is based on how well they can remember the map. It starts with a single starting point and moves out in a tube map style with different 'destinations' connected by lines.
So example destinations might be: "The Broken Mirror", "The Grave of Baba Yaga" or "The Fires of Angmar" and so on, the starting point would always be "Invoke the Ritual" or something. For an extra level of complexity the connecting lines could be coloured to the four elements, but that might be too difficult.
So a Mage has got hold of a spell to summon a pointy hat to wear, a simple enough spell. He prepares his ritual circle and gets a ref (yeah I know it's ref heavy). He tells the ref which ritual he want to cast. Its a simple level spell so the ref gives him a 'target' of "The Begger's Banquet". The Mage now has five minutes to 'get there'
The Mage tries to remember the way there from the starting point and one by one goes through each 'location' naming it in a suitable IC fashion, but also miming and using suitable props as he goes. if he passes through "the broken mirror" for example he might say "I invoke the Broken Mirror, see the shards I hold in my hand", then he passed through the Grave of Babba Yagga "I cast to the wind a handful of dirt fromt the grave of Babba Yagga" and so on until he reaches the target 'location'. If he does so successfully the spell is cast.
Now I'm not suggesting the MAges need to gather up all the componenets before they start, they can just carry a few props and use them for whatever end. The test is whether they can rememeber a way to reach a location given to them by a ref.
Make sense? Thoughts? Is it madness or Sparta?
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"Stick around!"
-Governor of California throwing a hunting knife into a man's chest
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Prodigal
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| I quite like it, though as you pointed out its ref heavy, and theres always the risk that refs may not necessarily use the same "end" point for each person. Wouldn't really be much use for "Fire and forget" spells but its a good plan for ritual stuff People would also end up with their favourite spells We were looking at a similar version for a game we're working on where Spells have component words, i.e to do a Fireball you had to know the words for Fire, Summmon, Movement and Damage. Put all 4 words together and you've got yourself a fireball. If you dont know the word for Movement its a static fire (i.e Touch version) I also wrote a fantasy system ages ago where spells had a number of vocals that got progressively longer which worked which is similar, i.e. Firehand was "By the powers of fire I summon the flame" Firedart was "By the powers of fire I summon the flame and cast it forth" The biggest level of the spell was "By the powers of Fire I summon the flame and cast it forth and by its might I strike thee down, and by its might may it consume thy body and cast your soul into the abyssal fire" (Or something like that) If people couldnt remember all the way through to the end, they could do a lower level versin of the spell.
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Devil's Advocate
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| Erm... how is that "hard skills" compared to say, remembering spell verbals? I think it's interesting, and might produce some nice sounding rituals, but i'm not sure how complicated it will be. Talk to most londoners and they can accurately name quite alot of the tube map!
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
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Heroic Knight
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I'm afraid I'm with Tart. Its probably a semantic distinction, but I don't personally think its actually possible to have hard skill magic - that would involve actually really casting real magic, which, though I can't prove for certain is impossible, certainly doesn't seem like something that can be chucked around at a roleplaying game. What you've suggested seems like a significantly different take on the old "memorise spell vocals" approach, which might be interesting and engaging for those who want to add a touch more versatility to fixed vocals, but unfortunately doesn't solve the problem of needing soft skills for magic in the way that you seem to be aiming for.
No spoken or written word can ever be a substitute for one's own practical experience. No-one too can convince another who does not wish to believe what he is told - only the doubter loses by his incredulity - T.C. Lethbridge
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Heroic Knight
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Last Login: Saturday, October 04, 2008 5:20 PM
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Ok lets not get freaked out talking about "real magic", a) this isn't a suggestion for 100% hardskill, b) LRP combat is hardskill but is nothing like real fighting, so why can't magic be similar, a test based on the player not the character?
All I'm really after is indeed a memory test, seems hardskill enough to me.
As for it being too easy, perhaps, but I'd have thought Londoners use the Tube very regularly whereas its less likely people would be playing a system with the same regularity, but I guess it would depend on the system and the complexity of the map.
I was thinking that spells wouldn't have a 'fixed' target location but that the ref would choose one based on the difficulty or type of spell, that way it would be a bit harder/more interesting than remembering one spell vocal.
We you guys are right about it really being memorising spell vocals, you could have two types. One for your point and click which is just a case of remembering the right vocals, and another ref/ritual type where the ref somehow asks the caster for specific spell vocals (but these are not set with the spell)...
That was the plan with the map but if the map is too easy, what do you guts reckon would be a good test to come from the ref?
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"Stick around!"
-Governor of California throwing a hunting knife into a man's chest
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Wag
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| It makes sense to me.... magic is all about intelligence, memory and creativity and this tests all three. Therefore it is a hard skill. I would also add a clause in it that the ref will be lenient if the caster is not *quite* remembering all of it but does a *good* ritual.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
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Heroic Knight
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| Sorry if it seemed like I was getting "freaked out", though I really don't know how that impression came across (the reference to "real magic" was mainly to stop Ian from challenging me to ritual combat). I think we just have different definitions of what "hard skills" mean - as far as I'm concerned, a large portion of LRP fighting is not governed by hard-skills at all: even in a system with no "disarm" calls, 1-second rules or other visible mechanics, damage and impact are still by their very nature governed by soft-skills. My understanding of hard-skills is that the action and its outcome is entirely "real", and not governed by mechanics or ref-judgement - so a hard-skill stealth move would involve genuinely creeping up on your opponent and them not hearing you, hard-skill cookery would be actually making a meal. This is what I mean when I say thats its impossible to have hard-skill magic. Its clear that we mean different things, though, and I realise you didn't start this thread to have a semantic discussion, I'm just physically incapable of not having the last word on something (its an illness). Like I said, I don't think its a magic system I'd enjoy playing, but it sounds like a good evolution of the fixed-vocals thing, and should work well.
No spoken or written word can ever be a substitute for one's own practical experience. No-one too can convince another who does not wish to believe what he is told - only the doubter loses by his incredulity - T.C. Lethbridge
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Champion
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That system could have some very interesting side effects. Say a caster does a spell and goes on a detour to find there because he/she forgot one bit. How the spell works would be influanced by the journey it takes.
I presume that when a spell is cast they take from the 'magical energy' of the world. So some spells might work in different ways if done via this instead of that path. Or even be nullified.
I would also only give a tiny section of the 'magic map' to the players, so they have to guess the rest.
Which makes it even more ref intesnsive! 
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