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 Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 2:17 PM |
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Heroic Knight
 
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Tart (6/16/2006)
I don't believe I did call Buddha a cunt, did i? that was someone else...
No dear, I was trying to demonstrate that you were not the only culprit.Tart (6/16/2006)
As a side note, Buddhism is technically a philosophy, not a relgion.
I'm afraid that you're mistaken there, the Buddhist scholars that I've read (predominantly DT Suzuki) suggest that Buddhism is neither a religion nor a philosophy. If you'd care to suggest why you believe that Buddhism is a philosophy I'll be pleased to try to demonstrate why it doesn't easily fit into that category.
Tart (6/16/2006)
As for fictional, from dictionary.com: "An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented."
I would say that defines God, or any meta-physical concept down to a tee. People with faith may not like that fact, but fact it is none-the-less: God is a meta-physical entity and as such there is no evidence for it's existense.
I would contend that there is more eye-witness evidence to support the existence of God than there is any form of evidence to support the existence of dark matter. I don't go around saying that dark matter is clearly fictional though do I? ("No" is the answer to that question, in case you're struggling).Humans do not have full knowledge of the universe and it therefore takes a supremely closed mind to suggest that it knows "the Truth". You do not know that God does not exist; rather, you do not believe that God exists. I am content for you to believe that but please don't try and foist your beliefs on the rest of us like it's the only truth. I'm happy to discuss matters of faith with anyone in possession of an open mind, yes even your atheism. Unless each participant can accept that the other may have something of value to add, then it isn't a discussion though, is it?
Tart (6/16/2006)
and I'm not sure you can be fundamentally atheist can you? there are no fundamentals to fall back on...Fundamentalists believe that they are absolutely right and that they have nothing to learn from any other faith. This is because they believe that the fundamentals of their philosophy encapsulate all truth in the universe. Surely the fundamental philosophy of atheism is that God is fictional is it not?
"When I want your opinion, I'll read it from your steaming entrails"
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| Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 2:22 PM |
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Devil's Advocate
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Xarra (6/16/2006)
Answering from a personal point of view, some people claim they've seen/had miracles occur. Some people believe they have a guardian angel. Some people believe the proof is the holy book's existance.
I, same as you, require proof for God to exist and personally believe the Bible is a good fiction novel. Doesn't mean I'm going to state outright it's a work of fiction and demand they accept that as absolute truth - it's my belief vs theirs and who's to say who's right?
I never said the bible was ALL fictional, just that by any reasonable defination God is. Anyway...
It is a very common mistake to say "it's my belief vs yours, what makes you right" about such things, but incorrect. It's all about the burden of evidence, and the validity of that evidence. There are tried and tested ways of proving somethings historic accuracy, whether a theory holds up etc. These things, when applied to religion/god/biblical accuracy all show how baseless it is.
Oddly, some people take exeption to this!
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
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| Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 2:43 PM |
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Live roleplaying's greatest cheerleader...
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Aside from whether a 'supreme being' exists. I found the survey quite shocking. I presumed that America was rather multi-cultural and as a result there would be alot of non-christians, seems I was wrong. Then theres the media linking terrorist attacks to religious war and people believing, it all gets very shocking.
_____________________________________________________
RL: Mr Sofar
Curved core weaponry and bespoke stuff.
ShelfordFX
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| Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 2:44 PM |
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Devil's Advocate
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I'm afraid that you're mistaken there, the Buddhist scholars that I've read (predominantly DT Suzuki) suggest that Buddhism is neither a religion nor a philosophy. If you'd care to suggest why you believe that Buddhism is a philosophy I'll be pleased to try to demonstrate why it doesn't easily fit into that category.
It is a set of instructions for living your life (or rather suggestion of a better way to do it) but doesn't adhere these principles to a higher being. hence a philosophy, not a religion. If you want to explain more, can you start a neww thread. keep this one clear?
I would contend that there is more eye-witness evidence to support the existence of God than there is any form of evidence to support the existence of dark matter. I don't go around saying that dark matter is clearly fictional though do I? ("No" is the answer to that question, in case you're struggling)
There is a VERY big (and important) difference between theroretical physics, and metaphysics. Scientists accept that dark matter is a theory that explain gaps in our understanding, and will change the model as and when new evidence is presented to update this idea.
Humans do not have full knowledge of the universe and it therefore takes a supremely closed mind to suggest that it knows "the Truth". You do not know that God does not exist; rather, you do not believe that God exists. I am content for you to believe that but please don't try and foist your beliefs on the rest of us like it's the only truth. I'm happy to discuss matters of faith with anyone in possession of an open mind, yes even your atheism. Unless each participant can accept that the other may have something of value to add, then it isn't a discussion though, is it?
So, do you also believe in the following: faeries, dragon, invisible aliens, spacebats? If you accept the intellectual turd of an argument that "abscence of evidence isn't evidence of adscence" then you have to accept that anything i can think of exists, beacuse you can't prove it doesnt. This is why meta-physics is ultimately useless in describign the world we live in, and why we don't use it.
I (like everyone in the world) lives in reality. I therefore describe my existence in terms of that reality. By the definition of "exists" in terms of reality, and scientific evidence, God does not exist. the concept would'nt even stand up as a theory.
If you insist of decribing reality with meta-reality it ultimately makes all observations pointless.
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
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| Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 3:15 PM |
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Heroic Knight
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Tart (6/16/2006)
It is a set of instructions for living your life (or rather suggestion of a better way to do it) but doesn't adhere these principles to a higher being. hence a philosophy, not a religion. If you want to explain more, can you start a neww thread. keep this one clear?
I have made a study of Buddhism, I'm guessing that you haven't. Your suppositions are wrong. If you want to argue the toss please go start a new thread yourself.
Tart (6/16/2006)
There is a VERY big (and important) difference between theroretical physics, and metaphysics. Scientists accept that dark matter is a theory that explain gaps in our understanding, and will change the model as and when new evidence is presented to update this idea.
I wasn't talking about metaphysics though. I was talking about eye-witness accounts of people confirming the existence of what is currently regarded as the supernatural. That's not metaphysics dear, that's first-hand reporting.
Tart (6/16/2006)
So, do you also believe in the following: faeries, dragon, invisible aliens, spacebats? If you accept the intellectual turd of an argument that "abscence of evidence isn't evidence of adscence" then you have to accept that anything i can think of exists, beacuse you can't prove it doesnt.
My word, we are tetchy today aren't we? I said that you couldn't know that a thing did not exist, and that you could believe it couldn't exist and I get that little tirade! For your information I don't believe in most of those things but equally I am not prepared to say that I know that they don't exist ... that is the difference between fundamentalists and moderates ... but then I've been trying to explain that to you for a while now and you're still not getting it.I'm not trying to describe reality using meta-reality ... I'm trying to discuss faith and the impact that has on people's lives. You can shout all you like that it's silly believing in something that doesn't exist but it changes nothing about the fact that people do] believe in these things and that their belief has an impact upon their lives and their relationships with others. You want to stand on your soapbox yelling that God doesn't exist? Go do it on your own thread.
"When I want your opinion, I'll read it from your steaming entrails"
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| Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 3:21 PM |
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Champion
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This thread is now off topic, despite our efforts to return it to the subject at hand. Please start another on the new subject if you wish.
Thanks. 
R7: Xarra // RL: Clare Selley // PD: Serengeti Blackpaw
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