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and Minimeister
 
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Apologies for double posting.
Wen Jian (6/13/2006)
coffmeister (6/12/2006)
[quote] Wen Jian (6/12/2006)
<snip>
Ignoring personal anecdote which is always hard to deal with, I was wondering what you found hard about getting into the Maelstrom campaign? What specifically made it hard to get in? The abscence of clearly signposted "plot"? The lack of knowledgeable NPC's to pump for info? I'm not trying to be mean btw, I'm just curious because I hit the ground running (my lot hosted, so technically more jet propelled then) and I haven't stopped since.  Are you playing independents? Churches? Trading Houses? Natives? Colonists?
It wasn't intended as a criticism of the game as much as a reflection upon how 'ways of playing' become ingrained. I was sure I wanted PVP action but wasdiffident at first about engaging upon it. I also found that long after I had adjusted to the situation, other members of my group were still stuck in an essentially passive modus operandi which made coordinated actions very fucking difficult indeed and restricted our impact upon the gameworld for some time. However I do get the satisfaction of seeing marked improvement every time I attend - which is a pisser because living in Germany means I missed the last 2 events!
So you feel that you're more able to get involved in the Maelstrom game than you were in..? What? The LT? A different system altogether? Certainly I've found that not needing to work through a pre-existing IC/OOC network of powerful NPC's and their mates (as I'm sure has changed since in games that I haven't played for a long time) was really quite liberating. I feel that I can now make a difference and that the people I'm with can actually change the game world. I dunno, lots of people seem to think that it's a PBEM game which just confuses me. Are these people playing the same game as me/us?
There is only overconfidence and terror.
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Knight
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coffmeister (6/14/2006)
Are any of these methods readily available to bods who just turn up? Or are people who aren't connected to powerful NPC's unable to resort to effective violence if they feel the need?
To be able to activate a transport circle, you need to be some sort of mage (minimum 5 character points) and spend 1 character point on ritual magic. So that is available to any random spod willing to spend 6 of their 17 points on magic.
To use poison you need the Poison Lore skill (4 character points IIRC) and enough money and/or contacts to buy the poison. The first part is easy for random spod, the latter part is harder, but still fairly easy.
Spell 3 or Dark Incantation 3 are somewhat restricted. However, scrolls of MageBolt/Harm just need money/contacts to acquire. You then need Literacy and Invocation to use the scroll (3 points total). You can also buy potions of these spells, which are more expensive but require no skill to use.
If there is an area with no ritual of peace (e.g. the Viper, Tarantula or Dragon camps at most main events) then you need to just drag people there and stab them up lots. Assuming you are using small weapons, that's zero character points required. Using the Viper camp to kill people (that Vipers don't care about) might get you a small fine for littering, I don't know how other factions react.
Getting yourself ritualed up to do flangy damage that will go through the ritual of peace is another option, but that will almost certainly require contacts.
hmmm... so not what you know, but who you know. What's the highest level of responsibility a player character can rise too? Is it true that only NPC's can lead a faction or a guild?
In any LRP game I've ever played, contacts trump just about everything. The LT is no exception.
Factions and guilds are totally NPC run. This is mostly for OOC reasons. However, many NPCs delegate just about all IC functions to PCs. So while you may not be able to run the faction in name as a PC you can certainly do so for all practical purposes. The NPC may have the final word on all major actions, but when the PC generals, high mages, grand viziers, ministers and diplomats are advising a specific course of action, the NPC would do well to heed their advice. Partly because they should know what they are talking about and partly because ignoring your faction tends to lead to shaving accidents whilst falling down stairs and landing on your own dagger. In the more polite factions it might just lead to your faction ignoring you.
I may be at the same event as you, but that does not mean I am playing the same game.
LT: Aries (Vipers)
PD: Dorian Bowchard (Sacuza)
I am hereby placing all original, unquoted text in the above post in the public domain.
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Champion
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coffmeister (6/14/2006)
Taking someone to the ritual circle/transport circle and taking them off site, using a poison, using someone with Spell 3 or a scroll of mage bolt, a scroll of harm.
These are the easier ways I can think off, there are more sinister/cunning ways which require more application and are more FOIP.
Are any of these methods readily available to bods who just turn up? Or are people who aren't connected to powerful NPC's unable to resort to effective violence if they feel the need?
Eh.. who said anything about NPC's... not sure what your trying to get at here. Are you actually trying to find information about the LT or trying to throw some mud because all the cool kids do? depending on the starting skills someone took, they can hit the ground with the ability to take an unconcious body through a transport circle. For the other methods it does not take a lot of playing to find someone with a poision/scroll, and to make a deal with them for there use.
coffmeister (6/14/2006)
The original in game purpose was that factions had been at such bloody conflict that the gathering was drawn up for them to meet and try and discuss there problems without fear of swords. It's out of game reasons were to allow people to have a fight in the skirmish area without characters dieing (Ah.. those skirmish woods!! never really made it to locko). It also does a good job stopping drunk barley in character people attacking that guy over there for a laugh and killing off a 10 year player for no IC reason. That said, I liked the last few years of ROP in the faction camps and main market areas, but not in the areas between. I hope things stay that way!
So the original purpose has been superceded? Both IC and OOC? Why do you think the game is improved by having the Ritual of Peace at all? If it just applies to the faction camps and main market areas, what about these big battles that are supposed to occur? Is it just that Big Battles are the Gathering's schtick and without a Ritual of Peace nobody will fight in them? Does anyone take this annual opportunity to use some of these FOIP methods to make sure their enemies stay down? Or is that prevented by IC logistics or OOC sensibilities? The reasons I gave above. It also does a good job stopping drunk barley in character people attacking that guy over there for a laugh and killing off a 10 year player for no IC reason. But I also like to see ares where there is no ROP, making the game that much more interesting and deadly
coffmeister (6/14/2006)
Minor point: Are drunk people not dissuaded from entering combat by referees? Or their friends? Is drinking to the extent that you're not capable of role playing a common feature in the gathering? Again, I've never been so I don't understand the culture. I'd have thought that it would be as big an issue if someone had a 1 event old character as if they had a ten year one, or is there something I'm missing?.Yes, referees will stop drunk people in mass combats, but Iam talking about the 2 drunk guys on there way back to a tent.
coffmeister (6/14/2006)
StuartMaher (6/13/2006)
Nope the Games is one of the 4 main line sanctioned events. There is PVM killing at all the mainline events. the fightr at the games was particulary gruesome and not only did for a lot of characters, but some high profile ones. There is nothing in the rulebook to say "This is how you get around the ROP" but it is not difficult to find out the basic ways, which is why I mentioned them above.
So... the monsters know how to get round the ritual of peace. I guess the players can use the same methods by observation, right? yes, if monsters are sent out with specfic kill goals then they will use poisions or something like that. I suppose a player could learn from that.. but there are a million and one ways to find out before you come across a set of monsters assinating someone.
coffmeister (6/14/2006)
StuartMaher (6/13/2006)
That depends on what you mean by advance. You gain OSP's for attending events which can be exchanged for occupational skills. thats the ruelbook advancement on your character getting more skills and abilities. If thats what you mean then there is also rituals you can get done if you can find/blag a ritual team and a slot. But the real advancement inthe system is networking. play your character and get to know others, get them to know and trust you, Then, if your goals are powers and responsability uin your guild/faction you will find yourself getting promoted. or you find that people come to you to get things done because it's known that you know the right people. From a game reward point of view this means that you find yourself with more and more to do as more and more people look to roleplay weith you.
Stu
hmmm... so not what you know, but who you know. no, what you know helps as well. But as with any LRP system, the longer you play your character the more IC contacts and repuation you build the more you are able to influence the game. You seem to imply that this is a problem or wrong. I'd love to know why? coffmeister (6/14/2006)
What's the highest level of responsibility a player character can rise too? Is it true that only NPC's can lead a faction or a guild?Correct, however, most faction or guild leaders pass off autonomy for parts of a faction/guilds operation to players. For example, a warleader will have control of the armies and lead them in battle. A high Sherriff will deal with all judicial issues. It is one of the more contraversial ways of doing things that the LT (and I belive CP) do things with good reasons for/against.
RL: Stuart Maher
PD: Stuart Maher in a frock coat
LT: Stuart maher in orange hi-vis
Omega: Stuart Maher in a rat mask
BUTT: Stuart Maher in various crap costumes
EOS: Stuart Maher writing plot EOS - Book now, thank me later. I was going to copyright my posts... but then remembered this is an LRP forum!
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Wag
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In my experience, the ROP works pretty darn well at the Gathering. It reduces deaths significantly allowing PCs to engage in far more fights than they might otherwise enjoy for the same given number of character deaths. There was a time when character death was almost unknown in the Gathering, but those days are long gone now. The ROP basically allows the LT to run the style of game they want, a high-combat, low-death (relatively) game. Maelstrom uses a similar mechanic using mortal wounds, excute times and so forth.
I have never found the ROP to have any significant effect on the amount of PvP play at the gathering and I speak as someone who has frequently attended and played with that as my sole interest. Sure it makes killing the other guys harder, but that makes attacking them easier. People are happier to start fights when they feel less concerned that they will die and less concerned that they will kill hundreds. The interminable gate moshes in which hundreds of players attack hundreds of players and not a single sole is hurt are proof of that. It's not my kind of PvP, but it's there for you at the LT if you want it.
If you do want to actually kill characters you can. It's been done frequently and often and while it is hard for a brand new inexperienced character to do it, (because he lacks the know how and means) it isn't a case that you need access to mingy NPCs. Once you spend some time thinking about it, it doesn't take long to work out how to kill someone, especially these days with the ROP so unreliable.
My real problem with trying to do PvP play at the gathering tends to be the plot. I don't sense any appreciation or understanding of the way in which high-impact end-of-the-world plots tend to undermine PvP play. I've got a great plan for starting a war with a couple of factions I don't like but I've decided to wait until next year to attend and put it into action. Why? Cuz this year we shall be mostly ending the world with the Padre plot. It's much harder to raise interest in real honest to goodness genocide when the Padre of Evil is coming to end the world on Monday.
Normally most of the characters I want to interact with completely ignore the annual end of the world plot, but this year, credit to the LT, they've genuinely galvanised players with the plot. Good for the LT and good for the players who go, but no interest to me.
Add in the smaller mingy plots that tend to go off all-over the place like firecrackers and I have to say I find the Gathering less and less a place where I can engage in PvP and ignore the plot. The plot used to be very obvious and have big flashing sirens on top so that anyone who liked to do other kinds of roleplay could head off in the other direction. These days it tends to drag you kicking and screaming into the bushes and force you to interact with it for hours and hours and hours... If you go to every event there is, that probably leaves enough time to engage in some enjoyable roleplay but for me, attending the odd event now and again, to lose half an event to a plot that "eats my brain" just leaves me deeply unsatisfied.
The LT generally speaking, seems better run these days, but the style of plot I've experienced in the last 2-4 years definitely suggests that it is moving away from PvP play not towards it. The RoP has nothing to do with that, it's to do with the plot the plot teams run.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Squire
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Matt Pennington (6/15/2006)
but the style of plot I've experienced in the last 2-4 years definitely suggests that it is moving away from PvP play not towards it. The RoP has nothing to do with that, it's to do with the plot the plot teams run.Where as from what I've experienced (Bears faction) the absolute opposite is true. I'm not saying that there isn't any PVM plot sent out by our plot team but that there has been an awful lot of PVP that in some cases we've started, some cases we've been on the receiving end of and in some cases we've gotten together with other factions through player ic negotiation. With something the size of the LT system I guess where you pitch your tent (ie what faction you pick each year), will depend how much PVP is occuring. Rob
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Champion
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Matt Pennington (6/15/2006)
My real problem with trying to do PvP play at the gathering tends to be the plot. I don't sense any appreciation or understanding of the way in which high-impact end-of-the-world plots tend to undermine PvP play. I've got a great plan for starting a war with a couple of factions I don't like but I've decided to wait until next year to attend and put it into action. Why? Cuz this year we shall be mostly ending the world with the Padre plot. It's much harder to raise interest in real honest to goodness genocide when the Padre of Evil is coming to end the world on Monday.It's interesting to hear you say that Matt. If anything the Cadre plot actually promotes PVP. I wonder how much you understand it give your statements, so i'll give a brief rundown That cataclysm will happen this year, the world will not be ended, but it will be altered at a metaphysical level. How do we know this... well.. a mingy NPC told us. :-( Well, I never claimed the plot was perfect. It's not a great del;ivery, but thats how it happened. So we know the world is changing, and it will change into 4 possible outcomes, the 4 cadre's , war, peace, famine and feast (Although the names have little bearing on what the new world will be). To win the cadre's must get backing of the players, and they must perform certain tasks (At this point my knowledge goes hazy I have no idea IC or OOC how these bits work). Most actions seem to be done against other cadre's and there supportes, which is in essence PvP. Also you get situations where people who did not want one of the cadre's to win ganged up and attacked the factions supporting them. Now, what this means is that you have a plot that encourages and promotes PvP, so you get to the situation where we are the opposite of last year (WHich you would have hated) where and PvP was killed off because the conclave plot had caused the factions into an unnatural alliance and people to spout "But if you fight us then you are weakening the fight against the conclave and playing into their hands". This year however it has become very easy to puruse player led grudges but then use the Cadre plot to keep your targets allies from joining in and also get some of the more fluffy players to join in the fighting. Honestly it has turned a lot of moderates in the lions that would not neccesarily advocate all out war on other factions into people chomping at the bits to get at our enemies, and by now with most of them you could remove the pretense of we are fighting them for Cadre issues and they would still want part of it because we have gotten their blood up. It may be a plotline, which historically tend to hamper PvP, but this one is kick starting it. If we can just clear the decks of the other stuff the rest of this years events are going to be brutal! Matt Pennington (6/15/2006)
Normally most of the characters I want to interact with completely ignore the annual end of the world plot, but this year, credit to the LT, they've genuinely galvanised players with the plot. Good for the LT and good for the players who go, but no interest to me.
you might be suprised... as I said before, come play a good guy in the Lions and we should keep you in PvP for the season!!!
RL: Stuart Maher
PD: Stuart Maher in a frock coat
LT: Stuart maher in orange hi-vis
Omega: Stuart Maher in a rat mask
BUTT: Stuart Maher in various crap costumes
EOS: Stuart Maher writing plot EOS - Book now, thank me later. I was going to copyright my posts... but then remembered this is an LRP forum!
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Wag
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[b]StuartMaher It's interesting to hear you say that Matt. If anything the Cadre plot actually promotes PVP. I wonder how much you understand it give your statements,
Undoubtedly not at all. I suspect the reason that the plot line has provoked so much interest is the fact that there is actually some play in it. Sadly for me, my enthusiasm for the LT game is at such a low ebb that I just can't get interested enough to see if that is the case. If it is so, then that is great.
As you say, only last year we had Conclave this and Conclave that. Now personally I liked the Conclave plot, it had big flashing sirens, no-one took it seriously that I met so I could get on with the things I wanted to do. I hope the Padre plot is as good a plot as you feel, I've just lost the enthusiasm to try anymore I'm afraid, but if it is the start of a better approach to the game I suspect you'll win folks like me back over time.
In the meantime you'll have to contend with an awful lot of cynicism which has been fertilised by the fact that I've never attended a gathering yet that didn't have an end of the world plot. Not once. A lot of plot run out in the past has undermined PvP play, so my gut instincts are to get as far from Padres and the end of the world as possible. And at the moment that doesn't leave all that many places to go in the game world.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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