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Heroic Knight
 
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:13 PM
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All good, it's only via this sort of post-chain that we get to have an overview of the hobby at large.
Re Chris's point, I was making reference to Fantasy lrp only - modern day/sci-fi is alive and kicking!
I agree with Burger (bad habit that) re the time thing - even if you've got the cash, there's only so many weekends in the year you can devote to lrp (and that includes you Mr. Connell).
Peter's point is also valid - PD has definitely changed the paradigm for fantasy lrp.
Balor's observation re themed events around the same system is bang on, hence why a number of clubs our size run events with multiple themes - if your good at running events then there's little to stop you offering variety. We don't as we do campaigns, but that's not to say the idea hasn't occured.
In answer to nesciomancer's observations re question asked and replies received, I would say in terms of fantasy the answer is no unless you are running a university club; other lrp is fine and is infact growing in some areas as old fantasy heads get older and want to try something new.
Matt, PD has certainly put pressure on CP & LT. CP are running far more faction/sub-faction events than they did 2-3 yrs ago, and LT have even started to look at themselves a bit!
The net result is that I'm getting people that would normally crew/ref for us being put under pressure not to by one of the fest systems; bit sad really but combined with other stuff I'm aware of only reinforces my perception that the hobby is straining a bit to support 3 large fest systems. Numbers might be up for you Matt, less so for the other two I suspect.
Your point re 'what happens to the big three if smaller clubs die?' is valid, but IMHO it'd affect PD more than the other two; a lot more lrpers go to PD+another, which is the double-edged sword you manage.
In terms of what you can do for the hobby, why not illustrate what resources you have?
If I know what you can do for me then I can start to think what I could do for you. The other two aren't taking this approach so see it as an opportunity 
Nyctophobia
www.nyctophobia.org.uk
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Wag
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Egonaught (3/28/2007)
Numbers might be up for you Matt, less so for the other two I suspect.Our numbers rose sharply at the tail end of last year but currently we're not expecting any more players for Easter than we had at Easter last year. It's all down to the gate figures now of course.
Your point re 'what happens to the big three if smaller clubs die?' is valid, but IMHO it'd affect PD more than the other two; a lot more lrpers go to PD+another, which is the double-edged sword you manage.
Another of the B3 or another local system? The LT have a sanctioned event or two on every weekend over the year but I'm not sure how many people really go to one every weekend. Maybe more PD players do local clubs, maybe not, I honestly don't know.
My point really was about turn-over. Turn-over is to be expected and anticipated. You will lose players over time. If you don't have new players coming in, you WILL bleed to death. I use that turn of phrase deliberately. You have to actively try and recruit new players, just to stand still. If the local clubs go, that becomes more difficult.
In terms of what you can do for the hobby, why not illustrate what resources you have?
Lol. I dunno really! We print lots of pretty literature, but I suspect DUTT is fairly unique in finding a use for that. We have a lot of kit which we lend out, but our rule these days is that we only lend it out to crew members, otherwise it would go a bit mental. But PD has 80+ crew, so if one of them is also a crew member for your system then bear in mind that they can use PD kit for their own events. Tents, decent wooden benches, decent radios, weapons, costume and armour. We carry fliers which we can print in house for systems at no charge or post out in our mailshots if you get it professionally printed. I suspect our website gets a lot of traffic (given our downtime system) so events that might be of interest to our players can be advert-linked off the website. We encourage players to bring fliers for events and put them in GOD. I've got a small amount of experience with DTP and database software so anyone looking to administer their event or to publicize their event is welcome to talk to us and pick our brains or provide you with help using the software or working on the end product.
It seems a lot written out like that, but in practice it often doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Borrowing kit is all well and good, provided you can get to Preston and take a trailer away... Not too likely for most small events. Lots of people have tried sticking fliers in our mailshots few have had much success. Software is intimidating, most event organisers use what they know how to use and don't attempt anything further so additional help is not much use.
As I mentioned earlier, we have some big plans for opening up our database to allow other LRP organisers to communicate directly with our players (with their permission of course). It's all a bit pie in the sky at the moment, but the theory seems good in my head. If we can get that up and running I think it will do more good for LRP (and for PD) then lending out a few wooden benches to event organisers running events up north.
I think we're a bit off the beaten thread here... Possibly this ought to be another thread... On the other hand no-ones complained so far. 
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Champion
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Last Login: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:39 PM
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| I'm a bit late coming into this but as an LRP organiser, one of the main reasons the club scene is declining (outside of the Uni circles) is in my view down to LRPer apathy. Simply put any small group organiser will talk of LRP apathy, that unwillingness of a core of LRPers to book in advance, to front the cash, to actually commit to attending the events. From my experience, organisers end up fronting and in severe cases losing considerable cash to this apathy of a section of the players. To get events going organisers need to treat it like a real job, hassle, cajole, persuade and pester. Yeah there are those who support, pay up front and back the events to the hilt, but they arent enough on their own. So want to see more clubs? Simply put support your small organisers, commit to their events, give good feedback, and part with your cash in advance, not on the door. They certainly dont do it for money, only for the satisfaction (at least in my case) so them making a loss each event isnt going to encourage them to continue.
--------------------------------------------If the Gods didnt want us to eat people, then why are they made out of meat?Grumf Kikuto - United Tribes of New BantustanSir Nathaniel Holt - The Fallen
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Wag
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:39 PM
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More to the point... in most cases, more profit on the event means more cash to buy stuff for the next one to make it even better. In most small/club systems you are investing in future props not the organiser's new car
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
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Prodigal
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| Have to agree with Cenobite on that one. Its only for the satisfaction that I do it, and having lost about £500 on the first two Dark Times events, and another £60 last week on the last Brighton Below event, theres a point where the satisfaction only goes so far On the other hand it is in part my own fault for not pestering, hassling and prodidng everyone into paying up in advance etc. Whilst I'm kinda used to LRPer apathy (cos it does exist) I still wonder whether its worth the stress sometimes. "If you build it, they will come" does not necessarily ring true with LRP events Small clubs will also suffer in that the more stressful and problematic it is, the fewer people will want to take over when the inevitable comes and the original organisers want to "retire". In my experience, many of them have had someone take over for a few months before it folds. Its hard to have the same commitment to a system when its your "adopted baby"
- -------------
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- Brighton Below : Organiser
- Serenity: Capt Tom Crowson
- RL: Simon / Trez
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and Minimeister
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Trez (3/29/2007)
Have to agree with Cenobite on that one. Its only for the satisfaction that I do it, and having lost about £500 on the first two Dark Times events, and another £60 last week on the last Brighton Below event, theres a point where the satisfaction only goes so far. On the other hand it is in part my own fault for not pestering, hassling and prodidng everyone into paying up in advance etc.
Ahh... you're a nutter! Or passionate, whichever way you prefer.
Blimey. I had no idea that organisers would end up that much out of pocket. No wonder it's hard work to get people to run systems. It steals their time AND a huge amount of money! I suspect that part of this relates to it being seen as bad to charge money for the hobby and that making a profit is bad form. Certainly of the three big fests I have attended two systems and I found that running an event for profit seems to focus organisers on providing quality stuff.
Conversely I've seen events where it's allegedly run for profit and it's been, by and large, an exercise in cost-cutting and failure rather than attempted greatness. I've also _heard_ of events which are _alleged_ to be run for profit for the organisers which are _claimed_ not to deliver the same level of fun as they should, but I'd have to bite the bullet, pay 70 quid+ and go to one.
Essentially, 35 quid for a weekend seems quite reasonable, (that's not a gate price, that's a full multi-event discount booked _and__paid_ _for_ 4-5 months in advance). I've _no_ idea about the economics of doing this thing, but if you're going to ask for more than that you'd better have:
1) A _beautiful_ and exclusive site.
2) Mad props and costume from the crew (and expect more from players)
3) An interesting, well-written _complete_ background system.
4) Excellent rules that are near perfect and beautiful.
5) Some other neat hook (e.g. popular series, catered)
So, you know I reckon you can add about 5 pounds per item on that list (and looking at another 10-15 quid if people pay on the gate) and you'd have a good ROT for costing an event.
e.g. Base 35 You've got a hundred acres of woodland, (+5), a dedicated professional/skilled costumier (+5), rules all written to perfection (or current best practice, i.e. complete but not complex) (+5), a clever background (that may tie in nicely with 5) (+5) and because I'm booking 4+ months in advance I'll part with 55-60 pounds safe in the knowledge that the chances of having a good, memorable, exciting time are pretty high. If I had the temerity to turn up at an event without notice I'd expect to pay another 10-15 quid on the gate and possibly more.
(If I monstered I'd expect to be worked like a dog, but fed and possibly housed and maybe if I was good and the organisers were feeling generous, get a discount on a future event.)
Of course, to get extra money out of people you have to:
1) Identify your schtick from the list above (or other if you have it)
2) Get the information out to people along with schedules for booking and so forth (possibly even new player discounts)
3) Work your arse off promoting and following up on it.
So basically that's what I'd want to do if I was going to run an event. Which is of course, why I don't and hope that nobody else notices... 
There is only overconfidence and terror.
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Wag
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Cenobite (3/29/2007)
Simply put any small group organiser will talk of LRP apathy, that unwillingness of a core of LRPers to book in advance, to front the cash, to actually commit to attending the events.
Unless you're saying that people definitely really want to attend these events but simply can't book on time (i.e. you always get the numbers you want, but often too late) then this seems rather unhelpful.
The general mood seems to be that one of the (if not _the_) major contributors to the decline of small clubs is player attendance. Basically, that's people buying your product. To say that the decline of consumer uptake is down to consumers being too lazy to buy the product that you're sure that they want seems a bit farcical. Are you presuming apathy is causing people not to book for events which they really honestly would have booked/attended if it weren't for their 'apathy' because they are politely blaming themselves for not bothering to attend your events? In a small incestuous hobby like larp, I'd expect consumers to be overpolite and always blame themselves for not attending someone's event (or form non-communicative factions to justify not attending an LT/CP event). I think this means that larps are (sensibly) polite. Maybe I didn't feel like attending your event right now - perhaps I will in the future. Better to blame my current non-attendance on 'my apathy and general shoddiness' than the poverty of your pitch and the naff write-up that came with it.
I think it goes without saying that if we want more larp clubs we could all - as consumers - bring this about by attending more clubs and spending more money on the hobby. Exhortations to do that seem rather pointless to me and highlight instead the failings of clubs to be able to advertise themselves effectively on their merits. I don't want to attend larp games for the 'good of the hobby' - I want to attend larp games I think will be cool, which I can get to without too much, with my own group/with a group I'm willing to join.
From what I've seen the main problem with larp clubs is advertising/recruiting. Some people in some groups are sometimes decent at this - but the overall trend is to live a comfortable life with the friends you already have and not do anything uncomfortable and difficult like talking to strangers/making an exhibition of yourself. This isn't just a larp thing - student societies are generally extremely poor at this (impossible to find webpages which have lots of useless blurb and in-jokes, but fails to list where and when meetings are held - why bother, all the regulars know? - and a tendency never to consider recruitment after the Fresher's Fair. Coming along to a larp club on your own initiative is considerably less likely than bimbling along to the local Chess club without an invite.
As has pointed out, larp clubs need to run pretty quickly just to stay in place - you only need people to get lazy for a year for numbers to drop precipitously. If your numbers weren't that high to start with, I don't imagine it would be hard for them to drop below the level at which the remnants feel inspired/capable of replenishing them.
Marios
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Wag
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Last Login: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:33 PM
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