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Prodigal
 
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Gall Saga didn't dwell on it or focus on it, through it was sometimes mentioned in passing.
------<insert really amusing sig here>
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Squire
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samharber (4/22/2007)
The GLC Viking game specifically left out the rape aspect of the game. Just because a historical period contained something unpleasant, that is no reason to either dwell on the subject or specifically focus on it.
Quite hard to have a WWII event (especially one with german PCs) without dwelling on Nazism, I would've thought. If you were going to avoid the subject, the best way would be to not run a WWII event, surely?
To run a sanitised, boy's own version would be far worse IMHO as it would be ignoring one of the most horrendous periods in human history (if you don't learn from history, doomed to repeat it's mistakes etc etc).
J
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Wag
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Godisabullet (4/22/2007)
ignoring one of the most horrendous periods in human history (if you don't learn from history, doomed to repeat it's mistakes etc etc).
Larp games (and board games/computer games) are generally always based around one of the most horrendous periods of human history - the other periods are boring. Why is WWII worse than the conquest of the New World, except in the sense of geographical proximity/white-on-white action?
Marios
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Prodigal
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| I'm still not clear exactly what people's objections are: - Is it the objecting to players playing roles defined as 'evil' by our OC perspective? If so, wouldn't like preclude playing drow (and a lot of other things). - Is the use of a near-modern setting? Lots of larps have donw this already. All the 1920's and 1930's cthulhu games for example (some of which include IC discussion of Mr Hitler) - Is it references to a certain political idealogy that is currently OC socially unacceptable? People don't seem to object to references in other artforms (eg. films, etc). It's also been done many times in larp before (nazi tremere are something of a cliche in vampire games) I'm also reminded of some of the old dragonbane threads - a larp being attacked and critised by people who had no interest in going.
------ <insert really amusing sig here>
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Prodigal
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| Personaly, I am interested in this idea. I think trying to immerse in the conditioned nazi mindset would be an interesting RP challenge (if done seriously, rather than for comedy). Exploring the world with a wildly different moral compass would be a mental challenge, especially with the moral shades of grey (some germans fighting out of a sense of patriotism without any real belief in their excesses of their government, true believers following the ideology to the latter even when not in their own best interest, double patriots (like Von Clauswitz was in an earlier century) working against their own regieme for the percieved best interest of their people, career soldiers in it for the pay with no wider concerns, etc.) What perhaps puts me off is the overly military based (and perhaps mission based) focus on this particular larp.
------ <insert really amusing sig here>
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Wag
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Cowboys and Injuns is just plain fun, Nazis versus Jews is not. I'm entirely unconvinced that this is any sort of directly-rational response (certainly not comparable to Hutus versus Tutsis, Serbs versus Croats, Palestinians versus Israelis - debates seem less marred by automatic flinch reflex than by lack of interest beyond perhaps having seen one film/book/article).
On one level the argument is the 'it could happen here - never forget!'. The thing is, it doesn't seem particularly likely to happen here - there are anti-semites in Britain, but I don't see any reason why we should be more concerned with anti-semitism than with racial prejudice against Blacks or Muslims. Realistically, if the aim is to develop a serious concern with genocides occuring outside of Britain (it's been quite a while since we've had a good purge - the last few that the British as a nation should really be informed about would be the involvement in the genocides involved in our North American colonies, India and the Boers in South Africa).
Seemingly, it's much more desirable to draw lessons from history involving regimes which lost wars against us and have no continuity to current regimes (Britain, Russia, China).
In practice, I think it's just that the Holocaust industry employs some very energetic lobbyists who do their best to keep the focus on anti-semitism and the Jewish Holocaust (largely regardless of the threats to other racial groups).
So, yes, it is rational to be more concerned about playing a Nazi than playing a Conquistador (or a Hutu or a Serb or a slave-owner or a Communist) - not just because you're conditioned to be unable to sympathise with Nazis to a degree well-beyond the other categories (a rather odd way to 'learn the lessons of history'!) - but mostly because the slightest danger of being confused with/looking like you sympathise with an anti-semite is enough to land you in a lot more shit than any of the alternatives.
Marios
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Prodigal
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| The german larpers at Knudepunkt this year did mention they wanted to run nazi larp (including from what i gathered concentration camp larp) but were unable to in their own country. The Israeli larpers present said they would be interested to playing such, and pointed out jews have already taken part in concentration camp reenactments in Poland (IIRC). International aid groups present gave a lecture and ran some demo games on how they use larp to educate young people about the blight of refugees, included being in essential prison camps. I think Marios does have a valid point. I'm not sure it would be good to have photos from the event get out into the public domain (suppose one of the players ended up involved in RL politics in later life and the press found the photos?).
------ <insert really amusing sig here>
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Wag
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Nath (4/22/2007)
I think Marios does have a valid point. I'm not sure it would be good to have photos from the event get out into the public domain (suppose one of the playersended up involved inRL politics in later life and the press found the photos?).
Personally I think Ed is over-reacting significantly. I wouldn't be remotely interested in LRP that involved nazi ideology as one of it's themes, but I'm happy that it happens so long as the ideas are handled with appropriate sensitivity.
The idea that Prime Minister Blair's photo of him playing a nazi in Josh's Iron Eagle game could end up on the cover of the sun seems to me to be a consideration for Tony Blair not Josh. The few people I know who have "attackable" real life jobs take this kind of sensible attitude. I don't see why LRP should self-censor it's themes to ensure that individuals don't have to self-censor the games they choose from.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Champion
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