|
|
|
Heroic Knight
 
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 10:14 PM
Posts: 205,
Visits: 762
|
|
| Tart, you're being deliberately obstinate as per usual. For a decent commentry on many issues facing people with disabilities today see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/ It's a decent site with a plethora of viewpoints. Unfortunately people still remain intolerant of disability. Attitudes have to change. More and more disabled people ARE being employed but mostly in low paid work. The levels of unemployment amongst disabled people are still very high. Many businesses complain about being forced to comply with the disability discrimination act, and there are doubtlessly situations on a weekly basis when someone isn't given a job for reasons of their disability. I believe some people fear difference and so they ridicule it. Personally I think the social worker who made that comment about 'Blue faerie' not going out should be shot....well maybe just fired. Many people don't understand disability and how it affects people. I believe that society makes people 'disabled' and it is our responsibility as a society to remove the barriers and obstacles both physically and socially that reduce the quality of life of disabled people. There are also lots of disabled people who are very willing to discriminate against disabled people. I will never forget the show on BBC2 with 10 disabled people trekking cross country somewhere in Africa. One of the guys had Tourettes syndrome. The group decided to trek cross-country rather than following the path and as a result that greatly affected his ability to handle the situation. Alot of the time people think because they have a disability they know all about it and sometimes end up being more closed minded than someone without one. Not that I used to work for a disability charity or anything and have a slight bee in my bonnet about these issues. MattJ
If I wanted to listen to an arsehole, I'd fart!
|
|
|
|
|
Heroic Knight
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 10:14 PM
Posts: 205,
Visits: 762
|
|
Marios (2/6/2007)
I guess, it might actually be worth trying to limit the Disabled lobby group - the more disabled rights are pushed, the more that polite behaviour around the disabled is seen less as a social matter and more as a legal matter - the more that disabled members of the community are seen as something the community has to fit itself round, rather than people who have to fit themselves around the community - the less I think people will be inclined to view disabled people as ballastexistenz and less an opportunity to express their social highmindedness. MariosNo offence but what a load of rubbish. I bet the chav and the old lady were both merely rebelling against legislating over a social issue, not just being ignorant twats. Lets get real, people moan about disability rights and legislation because it makes their lives harder. They don't want to worry about ramp access to their shop or printing large print handouts for schools. People insult because they're ignorant. Education doesn't have to brainwash people you know to make make them changee their minds. Alot of people when they start to learn about disability issues change their opinions voluntarily realising how draconian some of their old viewpoints were. Granted not all people will and we don't have a right to act as thought police. But everyone SHOULD be educated so at least they can make an informed decision on their opinions and bias.
If I wanted to listen to an arsehole, I'd fart!
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:03 PM
Posts: 1,084,
Visits: 934
|
|
Bluefaerie (2/6/2007)
Aware, yes, but not necesarily more tolerant of or more willing to accept. The Chav, who I shall continue to label as such, because it is a useful handle on a culture I don't understand and have not other reference with which to label him, I wouldn't worry it's probably accurate *grins* And there was a social worker who, while not actually using insulting language or words about me, still managed to royally offend me by asking me why in heaven's name I wanted to work when surely I should stay at home like the other blind people. *jaw drops looks horrified*
|
|
|
|
|
Prodigal
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 10:56 PM
Posts: 945,
Visits: 1,362
|
|
| The trouble is that we assume any conflicting opinion is the result of ignorance and that if we "educate" the person who disagrees with us then they will change their view, and often this is true- a lot of discrimination comes from ignorance, fear is another great motivator for discrimination. There are however an increasing number of people who enjoy "hurting" others, through words or physical violence and they find it hard to explain why. Perhaps this is a result of the lack of commitment we as a society have to each other- or maybe we've always had evil cunts. The very fact that we've had to legislate against discrimination and hate crime suggest that this is in fact the case
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:03 PM
Posts: 1,084,
Visits: 934
|
|
MattJ (2/6/2007)
Unfortunately people still remain intolerant of disability. Attitudes have to change. More and more disabled people ARE being employed but mostly in low paid work. The levels of unemployment amongst disabled people are still very high. Unfortunately (and Im trying not to sound like a facist here) a large part of that is because the range of what is considered a 'disability' has increased. Since it now includes areas such as 'learning disablilities' the likelyhood is that many of those so designated persons are unlikely to be placed in high paid work or be employed at all. If we want parity on that level what we need is an equal pay scheme regardless of what you actually do as a job. Which I think is unreasonable. Much though I favour making accomodation for physical disabilities where it is reasonably practical we must still bear in mind that these indviduals are 'less able' which does reduce their opportunities for employment in certain areas thus any sample of the group would be expected to show lower employment.
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 3:57 PM
Posts: 1,040,
Visits: 8,197
|
|
Could the problem be that society now relies on the powers that be to police discrimination and social attitudes. Once a bigoted fool would get a telling off from their peers, now society reports the offender to the boss/ police/ council/ forum admin, instead of standing up and saying that the offender is wrong. To make a point – Tart I find your comment about referring to disabled people as cripples offensive, even if the insult was indirect and flippant, it is still offensive. I personally don’t tolerate that kind of comment. Now I could of complained to the Moderators but I prefer direct action.
_____________________________________________________
RL: Mr Sofar
Curved core weaponry and bespoke stuff.
ShelfordFX
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:03 PM
Posts: 1,084,
Visits: 934
|
|
Andy Rimmer (2/6/2007)
Perhaps this is a result of the lack of commitment we as a society have to each other- or maybe we've always had evil cunts. The very fact that we've had to legislate against discrimination and hate crime suggest that this is in fact the caseThats a tricky one... I sometimes think that such legislation was a huge mistake. It tends to focus attention on the group who should have had adequate protection form the extant law.... it's simply that the extant law was not enforced properly. I suspect weve always had evil cunts though.
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Today @ 12:10 AM
Posts: 1,897,
Visits: 7,856
|
|
MattJ (2/6/2007)
Tart, you're being deliberately obstinate as per usual.
Pointing up hypocrisy is obstinate? I suppose it is if you expect other people to share your hypocrisy because you share a community - but it's hard not to see that as admirable given the Western Enlightenment norm of Truth>Society.
MattJ (2/6/2007)
For a decent commentry on many issues facing people with disabilities today see:
Viewing that page, the role of the disabled in society does seem to have improved markedly in the last 50 years. Perhaps receiving verbal abuse should be seen as the final social shibboleth - before the expansion of 'women's rights', women (ladies, at least) were customarily treated with greater politeness in (decent) society. Now they can (almost) lay claim to as much explicity abuse as men, rather than being treated like hot-house plants.
If the intention is for disability to be treated as people no more stigmatised than tallness/shortness/fatness/thinness then I'd have though the moment of utopian arrival would be when it becomes socially acceptable to use phrases like "Crip on a Trip" (the name of a new Channel 4 program - the Crip in question had to lobby very hard indeed to get Channel 4 to accept the name).
MattJ (2/6/2007)
Unfortunately people still remain intolerant of disability.
What does this mean? What would it mean to 'tolerate' someone's disability? Is it 'intolerant' of the 'body public' to prefer non-disabled lead stars to sit coms or as receptionists or models? How does someone 'not tolerate' a disabled person (does a policeman come and ask them to move along, the way they used to with poor people?).
MattJ (2/6/2007)
Attitudes have to change.
Why?
MattJ (2/6/2007)
More and more disabled people ARE being employed but mostly in low paid work. The levels of unemployment amongst disabled people are still very high. Many businesses complain about being forced to comply with the disability discrimination act, and there are doubtlessly situations on a weekly basis when someone isn't given a job for reasons of their disability.
Seems reasonable - why should I employ someone as a receptionist if I don't think they'll be very good at it? It's rather hard to see why employers shouldn't have the freedom to select who they employ - up until it becomes a significant social problem likely to undermine the economy of the country/trigger riots.
I simply don't see a parallel here between blacks in ~60's America and disabled people in 00's Britain. The disabled community doesn't have the same cohesion, the same pressures (to eachother or to blacks in '60's America) or the same numbers.
Simply put, it doesn't much look like the disabled community is in a position to demand that society reorganises itself to suit them, whereas American blacks were.
MattJ (2/6/2007)
I believe some people fear difference and so they ridicule it.
Discomfort isn't fear (and bullies aren't all cowards at heart!). Differences are also perceived entities - in some cases visually perceived, in many cases perceived by self-identification. I don't think it's merely the Bad People who create Differences - people also generate them (as social constructs) for personal benefit, be it economic or social (like virgins who identify as bisexual).
MattJ (2/6/2007)
Personally I think the social worker who made that comment about'Blue faerie'not going out should be shot....well maybe just fired.
An example of the form you wish 'tolerance' to take (i.e. tolerate the people who're on your side, punish the people who are on the opposing side)?
MattJ (2/6/2007)
There are also lots of disabled people who are very willing to discriminate against disabled people.
There's an old Jewish joke (if you criticse it then you're a filthy anti-Semite and they've got a much more cohesive lobby group! Disabled people are about as likely as poles or homosexuals to get a mention on Holocaust day - also-ran victims) about hunchbacks going something like "What makes a hunchback laugh?", "Seeing another hunchback with a worse hunch.".
Marios
|
|
|
| | |