|
|
|
Heroic Knight
 
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:59 PM
Posts: 193,
Visits: 1,167
|
|
Okay, we have Art, and we also have artists.
My opinion is the works of art become divorced from the artist as soon as they are finished.
Now, some of Adolf Hitler's paintings came up for auction and were sold... but various Jewish leaders around the world complained about it... but I think they were wrong. You see, the works of art in no way glorified Hitler except in terms of his (meagre) artistic ability, and although they wouldn't have attracted as much money if the artist was someone else, I can't see the harm in allowing them to be sold.
Another example: Gary Glitter. Apparently, I'm not allowed to enjoy 'Rock and Roll Part 2' anymore, because Gary is a paedo. But I like some of Gary Gliter's work. So why shouldn't I enjoy them? Admittedly, its likely he gets royalties from record sales still, but so do other people, who have done nothing wrong.
Costume hippy, live and let live, peace and love for all, man!
|
|
|
|
|
Heroic Knight
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:27 PM
Posts: 115,
Visits: 143
|
|
I also think that Hitler probably didn't do many nice things in his life, but those paintings are, you know, allright, I've certainly seen worse impressionistic renderings out there. It's unfair to sit on them and pretend that they didn't happen, or that there wasn't another side to his character or person. Creating a half-mythological monster-Hitler doesn't inform our moral decisions any better, does it? I fact I think it makes things worse - by portraying the individuals involved as sub-human monsters, we create the impression that nothing of that sort could ever happen in our own society, when in fact an individual or a society does not have to be wholly bad to do terrible, inhuman things of the same sort.
To quote Shakespeare; "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones; so let it be with Caesar."
I, on the other hand, am critical of the politically motivated vilification of anyone. Particularly anyone who was bad enough as it is.
_________________________________________________________________The nature of man is the same as the nature of a wolf and the same as the nature of an ox?
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 2:58 PM
Posts: 1,388,
Visits: 1,922
|
|
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mein-Kamph-Adolf-Hitler/dp/817224164X/sr=8-1/qid=1159723738/ref=pd_ka_1/026-9982662-6350043?ie=UTF8&s=books
Given that you can buy Mein Kampf from Amazon, I can't help feeling that complaining that a watercolour of some daisys goes up for auction is missing the point somewhat.
Should you be able to buy the painting? I'm against censorship, so that's a given for me.
Should you buy it? Almost certainly not, I doubt it's artistic merit justifies the price. A. Hitler is good for headlines, but I think artists like Wagner provide a better case study for questioning whether you can divorce the artist from their politics (because Wagner's art has artistic value, unlike Hitler's). Personally I'm fine with it in general terms, I wouldn't judge a politician by the values of his art, and I don't judge an artist by the political values of his mind. It becomes a little harder to divorce the two when the politics and the art are inseperable, I can still recall my teenage friends thinking it was funny to listen to Leibach, but it didn't make me laugh, it just made me think of gas chambers. However at that point the political statements become an intrinsic part of the art itself, if you find them distasteful, you're unlikely to appreciate the art.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
|
|
|
|
|
I do talk a good fight
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 10:48 PM
Posts: 1,830,
Visits: 5,472
|
|
I think that Laibach's humour is essentially the same humour as that that runs through the Judge Dredd comic; they're no more Nazis than John Wagner is....
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
Riftworld: Rossar Kuug ("Clearly mad, because he thinks he's a Com-Trow Skirmisher" - Aela)
Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
"My other oversized foam weapon is THE LORD" -- Questionable Content
|
|
|
|
|
Devil's Advocate
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:35 PM
Posts: 1,142,
Visits: 1,400
|
|
I've not heard them, but this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laibach_(band) Doesn't make them seem like nazi boot-boys to me...
It is an interesting point though. If you assume a persona for your art, do you become that persona? In the case of certian musicians in the media, this is almost certainly true. I see people being vilified for promoting hate etc in their records, but oddly i don't see Brett Eaton-Ellis being critised for his hate filled prose.
So a further point is, when can you divorce an artist from his art? Do you write eminem off as a mysoginst homophobe, or think there might be more behind his various persona's?
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 10:03 PM
Posts: 1,196,
Visits: 9,740
|
|
| Enimem? Reminds me of Alf Garnet for some reason and the complaints about that. Just seems to me if someone portrays a racist and shows how pathetic those views are then I'm happy. The problems only start when people are stupid enough not to see the irony. Selling Hitlers paintings, doesn't bother me either way. It's just a pity he wasn't a better artist. He might not of gone on to his eventual career if he could of made it as an artist. Now buying a known paedo's records? If Gary is geting a slice of the cash then no. Though I'd listen to the stuff, if it was free.
_____________________________________________________
RL: Mr Sofar
Curved core weaponry and bespoke stuff.
ShelfordFX
|
|
|
|
|
Heroic Knight
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, August 21, 2008 4:02 PM
Posts: 206,
Visits: 644
|
|
| "I can't quite paint his expression properly.... fuck it, let's kill all the Jews." Personally, I don't normally have a problem seperating the artist's personal opinion and actions from his art. I love the pre-prison recordings of Burzum, for example, and don't feel in any way guilty or morally compromised for listening to the music of a convicted murderer with strong Nazi principles who supports the use of racial cleansing (though I must confess, it helps that his music and lyrics are very mystical and ethereal, and are not clearly related to his politics or actions). If he was actually recieving any royalties from his work, however, I don't believe I would buy the CDs (though I would still steal them from the internet) - fortunately, Norwegian law prevents a convicted murderer from benefitting financially from his work (and I've heard wonderful rumours, though I can't confirm them, that the label donate a portion of the money raised from his record sales to Ant-Nazi charities).
No spoken or written word can ever be a substitute for one's own practical experience. No-one too can convince another who does not wish to believe what he is told - only the doubter loses by his incredulity - T.C. Lethbridge
|
|
|
|
|
Devil's Advocate
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:35 PM
Posts: 1,142,
Visits: 1,400
|
|
So does giving any money to a convicted artist count as bad then? Apparently Paedophilia and murder are right out, what about drug charges or other crimes?
Seems to me the "I'm happy to steal his music, but wouldn't give him any money for it" attitude is a bit odd. Unless of course, you wouldn't pay for music if you didn't have to no matter who the artist is, or what they have done. Otherwise the rule seems to be it's ok to steal from the bad people, but not the good people.
Eminem as Alf Garnet eh? Hmmm, I can see a video in that 
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
|
|
|
|
| | |