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Heroic Knight
 
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Last Login: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:45 PM
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I disagree that all Ref NPCs should be "the same as the players". In fact part of the point of NPCs is that they can be given roles of higher and lower power levels than the players and still be trusted to portray them convincingly and without dominating the game in any way.
If a referee starts using the system to run their own personal self-aggrandisement, it's time to ditch it and find a better system.
With regard to the comments about ref-less systems, I am not a fan. I agree that as much as possible should be self-refereeing, but I still believe you need people to arbitrate and answer questions. (I'm also a self confessed fan of bead bags for wound resolution which for practicality do require referees). If people cheating is even an issue, again, I'd probably let the organisers know that there was nonspecific cheating going on and that it was putting me off playing, then leave if it wasn't managed effectively.
Can I add again, that almost ANY reason for a ref to be part of the IC scenery is preferable to me over some bloke wandering through your IC scenes dressed in jeans and trainers and possibly a day-glo ref tabard.
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Maelstrom - Carl Whitesnake
Scavenger LRP - Organiser
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Knight
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| Should refs play NPCs? I have one reply to that - Skordhaka F***ing Cale My overwhelming memory of the first Omega I went to was of trying to find some plot to be involved with, and discovered Skordy and his mates were all over the only intriguing stuff I could find. I chatted with Chris Parr, and he was annoyed about how Skordy and friends appeared to be the biggest game in town. I believe on Pagga I whinged about that event enough under the name "seaman farshores". To be fair, Matt P later confessed that playing that character was one of the worst reffing decisions he'd ever made. Still, that experience left me with severe doubts about refs playing NPC parts with important plot responsibility. Has anyone ever played a vampire LRP game where the refs didn't play uber-hard NPCs made of solid ming and the discplines Flange 9, Plotspex 9 and Obfuscate Plot 9? Overall I'm not keen on the concept. The one example of it working well is at Artificer, where I crewed. The refs didn't play important NPCs for long, and the high-level NPCs are there for players to marry into, form alliances with and so on, as part of the high-level noble game. The crew were keenly aware of getting players involved, and frequently commented in the crew hut "let's make sure we cut the hot NPC on NPC action down." In conclusion - be careful, it's very easy for players to remember you as that ref who pranced around as the hard NPC, or the git who doled out plot to a narrow clique, and hard for people to find praiseworthy examples.
No, you probably don't remember my character from the events I've been to.
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Wag
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Tom Nowell (10/5/2006)
Should refs play NPCs? I have one reply to that - Skordhaka F***ing Cale
It's always nice to be remembered. 
To be fair, Matt P later confessed that playing that character was one of the worst reffing decisions he'd ever made.
Third worst of that campaign. I've made *loads* of bad reffing decisions elsewhere....
Overall I'm not keen on the concept. The one example of it working well is at Artificer, where I crewed. The refs didn't play important NPCs for long, and the high-level NPCs are there for players to marry into, form alliances with and so on, as part of the high-level noble game. The crew were keenly aware of getting players involved, and frequently commented in the crew hut "let's make sure we cut the hot NPC on NPC action down."
Generally speaking I think the larger the event the more important it is not to have the refs playing important NPCs, but a lot depends on the style of the game. The key thing to remember is that things always look different if you are involved in crewing/running an event. The crew are keenly aware of getting players involved at *all* LRP events, they may well feel confident that they are being successful, but some of the players will undoubtedly be having a different experience. The percentage who have a good time is what determines how good (or bad) the event is, but it's remarkably hard to judge that from the crewing perspective.
Consider the simple truism that if you *are* the major plot for the event then every player you interact with is getting involved with the major plot... It's much harder to "see" the people who aren't getting involved and enjoying the event, but oddly they have never have a problem "seeing" you. (Course it helps if you're bright red...) Good intentions, even vocalised ones, are not enough by themselves to produce a good event.
In conclusion - be careful, it's very easy for players to remember you as that ref who pranced around as the hard NPC, or the git who doled out plot to a narrow clique, and hard for people to find praiseworthy examples.
I'd agree but I'd couch the conclusion more in terms of providing as good as event as possible to as many people as possible. The point of organising events is to create events that people enjoy, any plot that involves the refs as major NPCs will have a tendency to dominate the dynamic of the game, and it's very easy for that to happe at the expense of the players enjoyment.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Champion
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You know I remember one thing about Skordakar Kale that might cheer people up about Snacky Ref NPC's, the first of several hits to drop him was accomplished by a conga line of starting characters doing single or double. They just ran past doing a quick hit and run and while they were still trying to catch the last one the next one swung in. Would have worked but for some pesky healers as I recall . So the one thing worse than snacky ref NPC's is INVULNERABLE snacky ref NPC's and Maelstrom didn't have that.
We were doing quite well with our intitial policy of 'Kill all the snacky NPC's so we can get on with our game' it was only when we relaxed this two or three games in that things started going wrong. Zero tolerance is a decent policy and at least a viable method of feedback to said refs playing said snacky NPC's, if you kill them enough times they might start to think of differnt ways to inject plot into games.
A voice was heard to say, “Who dares disturb the crypt of the Immortal Space Bitches?”
“I am Grimm Shado,” said Grimm Shado, triple wand claws extending. “And I am here to take it to the limit.”
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Wag
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Mark Wilkin (10/5/2006)
You know I remember one thing about Skordakar Kale that might cheer people up about Snacky Ref NPC's, the first of several hits to drop him was accomplished by a conga line of starting characters doing single or double. They just ran past doing a quick hit and run and while they were still trying to catch the last one the next one swung in. Would have worked but for some pesky healers as I recall . So the one thing worse than snacky ref NPC's is INVULNERABLE snacky ref NPC's and Maelstrom didn't have that.
Cale had four hits as I recall. He usually had a few defensive spells up but little more than a standard PC mage would have. While the character was a "high point" character, it was still a character devised under the same rules as PCs in a game that was explicitly designed to prevent characters becoming unbalanced as they gained in points. The simple power differential between Cale and another PC was small, he was a match for any other PC, but two or three PCs would (and did) kill him easily.
Which was largely what allowed me to make the significant mistake that it would be ok to play the character. The problem with a character like Cale was not in the stats at the event, it was in his "downtime" stats. His unfeasibly large army of people and weapons of mass destruction with which to threaten people who didn't do what he wanted. It was the plot position of the character that unbalanced the game and forced it into a state of focussing on NPCs actions and away from PCs actions. One minute you are trying to negotiate to buy a donkey for 3 gold from your local neighbour, the next minute the lord of all evil is threatening to destroy the world with his unstoppable army of mingy doom. Suddenly the donkey doesn't seem so important anymore...
The point is that it having the ref NPC be unkillable rubs salt in the wounds because it forces players into direct inaction at the event, they want to kill the NPC but cannot do so because of his personal power. But the real problem is that the players want to kill the NPC in the first place... And that happens because he is dominating the game by dint of the fact that he is played by a ref and is a big "important" NPC (this is of course only one of the reasons why PCs want to kill NPCs). They don't want to kill him for IC reasons, they want to kill him because he is making their game less enjoyable by his mere existence...
These days I try to remember something Gordon Newell once said "When the event is over, players NEVER froth about the things the NPC did.... They froth about the things THEY did.". What makes a good event is the actions of the PCs, the plot is simply a tool that can be used to help make those actions enjoyable.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Wag
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| Yep... the NPCs, whoever plays them, should be vulnerable and capable of mistakes. Also, refs and crew alike should freqeuntly play characters from throughout the powerlevel hierarchy to make sure that players do not second guess them OOC. You know: 'Oh, there's Matt playing a character. I bet that character is uber hard and involved in all the really difficult plots'. When really, Matt is this time playing Bob the pointless peasent so he can go out there and get drunk with the players for a bit and chill NPC parts should be given out based on how well an individual is capable of playing them. We all, as players, have roles which we are better at and worse at playing. A good ref should play to the strengths and allay the weaknesses of thier crew without (hopefully) taking all the best roles for themselves and also typecasting his crew. The last bit is the most difficult... 'Oh, we need someone to play a dodgy Salamander fire mage with a hareem of beautiful lady salamaders... Hmmmm... who should we get to play that? Ah! Matt, come here. We got the perfect role for you! Bring the red make up...'
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
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