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Wag
 
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Tart (9/26/2006)
But does it really matter is superpowers are given (Aragorn, HP, Superman) or learned/trained (Conan, Batman) if it results in the same net thing: The Hero Always Wins?
What superpowers did Aragorn have. Unless you count hiding. He's quite good at hiding. Obviously I say this in reference to the majority of the books before he picks up his own personal undead army... at that point he becomes a bit flange-worthy... always worried me that bit, Aragorn takes advantage of years of tortured soles imprisoned by his ancestors and raises the dead to fight at his whim.... a bit 'evil' shurely...
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Devil's Advocate
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Er... I meant superpowers in the Ian Sturrock sense. All that repressed nobility he was banging on about.
There's nothing wrong with your own Undead army. It's not like it's real people after all. Plus we all know when fighting a big evil you have to make sacrifices (locking up anyone who looks a bit orcish without trial, torturing Ura'ki for information, denying it in the press, that sort of thing).
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
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Squire
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I have to agree that any book that entices children to read more literature has to be a good thing, afterall I'm fed up with meeting school leavers who lack the basic education I'd expect somebody half their age to have. Obviously the education system and good parenting helps, but giving children interest to read gives them motivation to learn and form their own opinions, and maybe end up debating on boards like this. Therefore I couldn't care less about the depth or content of any of the HP books, they weren't intended to be written for muggles of my age, and for any adult that does read them then I'm sure it's just mindless enjoyment of the sort we all need to relax with occasionally.
I've just remembered - you're boring, and I've got legs!
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Heroic Knight
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At risk of stating the bleeding obvious, Harry Potter like so many other young protagonists (wait for the nonentity that is the hero/general/farm-boy Eragon this Christmas) is supposed to be as bland and unexceptional as possible, because the bulk of the readers are aware that they are as well, and are secretly waiting for a variation on "Merlin the wonder wizard recognises how special I am and gives me magic powers with which I shall suddenly be the best Alpha Male in the land" to happen.
Hard work and almost impossible odds to reach the top are out of fashion. It's far to realistic, and in the modern, vastly overpopulated world, the idea of reaching the top without exceptional luck or a real big hand up is laughable. So we all wait for Merlin the wonder wizard... or channel our energies into smaller communities-within-communities like LRP in the hope of being a big fish in a small pond.
I totally agree that I would like to see more characters, particularly in lower-polulation-density settings like a lot of fantasy, succeeding through their own hard work. (I'm reading the Farseer books at the moment, and my main complaint is that the protagonist is a whinging loser who doesn't have much ability of his own, instead relying on magic, relatives, and magic wolf friend who I really hope dies soon but depressingly know won't until the end of the first book in the sequel series). I want to see heroes exhibiting either: a) more ability than I have, or more likely b) taking risks and applying themselves with hard work and having successes based on their own merits.
Yeah Harry has a healthy disrespect for bureaucracy and is used to managing oppressive authority figures. Good for him. But I agree that most of the rest of it seems to be him relying on his great talent, charm (what could be less convincing), great magic, and special protection gifted by Mummy the Wonder Wizard this time. It's vintage bolleaux, cheery reading though the early books were.
As for Ian's observations about WWAD and WWCD, it made me laugh so much I nearly fell off my chair. Exactly.
_____________________________
Maelstrom - Carl Whitesnake
Scavenger LRP - Organiser
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Champion
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I`m secretly hoping for a Severus Snape spin off.  How many more movies before Harry kicks the bucket?
________________________________________________________ - IRL: Edwin Hofstra
- - mostly crewing at the moment
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Wag
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Iron Bear (11/27/2006)
I have to agree that any book that entices children to read more literature has to be a good thing
Yes, I'm inclined to think reading is a Good Thing and books that incite people to literacy - the Da Vinci Code and the Harry Potter series - do serve a useful function. But serving a useful function doesn't imply any literary quality (otherwise early-learning Spot The Dog and the Chemical Encyclopedia you use to jam the door count too).
Iron Bear (11/27/2006)
motivation tolearn and form their own opinions, and maybe end up debating on boards like this.
Rise and fall?
Iron Bear (11/27/2006)
Therefore I couldn't care less about the depth or content of any of the HP books, they weren't intended to be written for muggles of my age, and for any adult that does read them then I'm sure it's just mindless enjoyment of the sortwe all need to relax with occasionally.
You don't actually seem to be disagreeing with anyone saying that they are poor pieces of fiction, merely that both children and adults occasionally enjoy (and perhaps benefit) reading shit (albeit well-typed shit with a nice cover), which I don't think anyone has really questioned.
Flannel (9/26/2006)
Aragorn takes advantage of years of tortured soles imprisoned by his ancestors and raises the dead to fight at his whim.... a bit 'evil' shurely...
I'm not a scholar of Norse myth, but it seems to tie in comfortably with feudal notions of honour - he's redeemed a load of awful oath-breakers and released them from their self-imposed hell (actually, a bit fluffy compared to the Norse myths I've read).
Alastair (11/27/2006)
modern, vastly overpopulated world
How unfortunate that we weren't born in the past when we could properly appreciate nonmodern times and a correctly populated world.
Alastair (11/27/2006)
Yeah Harry has a healthy disrespect for bureaucracy and is used to managing oppressive authority figures.
Not to mention not discriminating on grounds of race. Way to knock down those giants!
Alastair (11/27/2006)
Good for him. But I agree that most of the rest of it seems to be him relying on his great talent, charm (what could be less convincing), great magic, and special protection gifted by Mummy the Wonder Wizard this time.
Talent, magic and flange is a matter of typing words on the page, making readers perceive a character as charming requires a little more the author.
Sounds like you want a Protestant Hero. All that comes to mind is Henry VIII.
Marios
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Heroic Knight
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Alastair (11/27/2006)
(I'm reading the Farseer books at the moment, and my main complaint is that the protagonist is a whinging loser who doesn't have much ability of his own, instead relying on magic, relatives, and magic wolf friend who I really hope dies soon but depressingly know won't until the end of the first book in the sequel series).
Stop now. Seriously, give it up before you reach Assassin's Quest - I guarantee you won't enjoy it.
No spoken or written word can ever be a substitute for one's own practical experience. No-one too can convince another who does not wish to believe what he is told - only the doubter loses by his incredulity - T.C. Lethbridge
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Initiate
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Right, that does it, if I ever become an evil overlord, I'm killing off every adopted male farm hand under 20.. I men look at em, Belgarion of Riva, Luke Skywalker, Clark Kent, Pug from the riftawar saga by Raymend E Feist and this Eragon kid. I'm giving Frodo an honorary mention cos his sidekick saved the ring and hey, Sam was a gardener and at hobbit size, it equates to a farm... come to think of it, he did plant potatos...
On the note of Rowlins, she may be formulaic but that is exactly what she set out to be and just merged magic (popular) with boarding schools adventures (popular). Nice move on her part regardless of harry being someone who should have been shot by now
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