|
|
|
Devil's Advocate
 
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:35 PM
Posts: 1,142,
Visits: 1,400
|
|
You really need to think your arguments through better and check your facts. Haemophiliacs need blood clotting factors just to live, *not* to pursue potentially physically dangerous careers. Haemophiliacs can develop internal bleeding sitting in a padded chair. Untreated, that internal bleeding will lead to death. Infertility does not lead to death.
But it is a drug that allows them to lead a normal life - including having children.
how about:
"I wish to lead a normal life (Including the right to have/not have children) but I have severe epilepsy/depression/insert non-life threatening illness here. Please can i have treatment to fix it/allieviate the symptoms?"
why is that ok, but not "i want to lead a normal life, and have kids, please can I have fertility treatment?"
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
|
|
|
|
|
Prodigal
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Today @ 10:00 AM
Posts: 792,
Visits: 1,057
|
|
| There is a fundamental assumption in that question - that having children is required for a 'normal' life. I dont agree that it is. Plenty of people life full lives without children, why not count them as 'normal' as well. Not dying of haemophilia/diabetes and not constantly having fits are requirements for a normal life, but I dont believe that having children is a requirement for a normal life. Therefore, fertility treatment is a luxury, not a vital medical issue.
_____________________________________________________ It is not a competition. It is a web forum.
|
|
|
|
|
Prodigal
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Today @ 10:00 AM
Posts: 792,
Visits: 1,057
|
|
Flannel put it so much better than I did.
_____________________________________________________It is not a competition. It is a web forum.
|
|
|
|
|
Devil's Advocate
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:35 PM
Posts: 1,142,
Visits: 1,400
|
|
So are you saying that future potential lives are more important than current ones?
Genetically speaking, yes. ie DNA doesnt care how many are born/die so long as it survives*, It's what it evolved to do.
*obviously it doesn't ACTUALLY think, but do you get what I mean?
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
|
|
|
|
|
Devil's Advocate
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:35 PM
Posts: 1,142,
Visits: 1,400
|
|
Not dying of haemophilia/diabetes and not constantly having fits are requirements for a normal life, but I dont believe that having children is a requirement for a normal life. Therefore, fertility treatment is a luxury, not a vital medical issue
You don't having the choice to have children is a normal thing to do? wierd fucking world you live in.
Right, can we move on from the Haemophilia example? I made a bad choice in picking that disorder, it was just the first thing that came to my mind.
The other is an entirely unneccessary procedure which has sod all to do with the health of the patient...
except mental health maybe...
People asking for fertility treatment for free are in my opinion extremely selfish and greedy people without the neccessary mental capacity to raise children in the first place. If you want it fucking pay for it yourself, having a child is NOT a bloody human right.
Isn't it? Surely the right to have kids (or not) is fairly fundamental. Why should some Rich fucks be able to carry on their genes, while someone else isn't?
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
|
|
|
|
|
Prodigal
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Today @ 10:00 AM
Posts: 792,
Visits: 1,057
|
|
You don't having the choice to have children is a normal thing to do? wierd fucking world you live in.
What I said was that having children is not a requirement for a normal life. Many people have normal lives without having children.
_____________________________________________________ It is not a competition. It is a web forum.
|
|
|
|
|
Devil's Advocate
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:35 PM
Posts: 1,142,
Visits: 1,400
|
|
What I said was that having children is not a requirement for a normal life. Many people have normal lives without having children.
I suppose it's what you define as "normal" really, which is anyones guess!
Like I said above, it's the choice to have kids that's important. Surely being ABLE to have children is normal? (whether you choose to is a different matter).
and IF we say that being able to have kids is normal, then surely we should help those who want to do so, but are incapable. In the same way we decide that not having a disease is "Normal" and help them to overcome that.
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:39 PM
Posts: 1,141,
Visits: 3,626
|
|
| You are diverting the topic away from the point. It has not been said that certain people should be banned from having children while others are allowed. It has simply been said that they should have a choice. As for infertility. A few points about that: - Yes it is a medical condition but it is not life threatening. Therefore it should come lower on the NHS priority lists than something more dangerous. - Not all cases of infertility are curable by current technology. Not all causes are even diagnosable by current technology. There are a lot of women with 'Non specific infertility' disorders who try to have children with infertility treatments and find they still cannot. Is it right therefore to waste money trying to treat them when someone else could benefit from the same treatment and get a result? Or that money could be spent on research to try to better understand the causes of infertility and produce better treatments. - You have to ask the question: What is the role of the NHS? Is it to save lives? Cure life threatening diseases, prevent said diseases from occuring? Or is it to pander to someone's whim? It cannot afford to spend its money doing the job it is supposed to do never mind creating more problems for itself. Maybe a better solution would be to work out a way to make private fertility treatments more affordable? - Mental health can be life threatening and is a severe impairment to quality of life even when it is not life threatening. It is therefore important to treat. Infertility is not life threatening in the main (and when it is, it can be treated). - You really do not need children to have a complete life. You really don't. Those who think they do are often deluded about it. More often than not, they need counselling for insecurity issues and despression than a child. More often than not, the child makes things worse - often to the detriment of the child. - I again point out the glut of children in orphanages and foster homes. If someone wants a child, they can apply to adopt. That way, everyone wins - the child gets a home, the woman gets a child, the state loses one more burden. And before anyone says that the adoption process is too strict, then ask yourself this: Do you really think those rejected for adoption are suitable to have a child of their own?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
|
|
|
|
|
Devil's A | | | |