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Wag
 
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balor (9/20/2006)
Possibly all three...
Kinder, kirche, kuche. Can't say you don't have options.
Marios
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Devil's Advocate
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The major problem in my view is this country seems to be encouraging people to breed. that breeding is now apparently be a financial burden that should be assumed by others. On top of which we now supply fertility treatment for free to those who can't breed naturally. For some reason there is an assumption that everyone needs to breed and have children, that this is some sort of right and societys burden. Which is bollocks... frankly we need to encourage people not to breed.
So i'm guessing you also disagree with holiday pay? and sick pay? Why should your holiday be financed by the company, why should they pay for you to be slacking off at home sick?
As for breeding: If we don't breed, we are genetically dead. The urge to breed is literally the driving force of life on this planet. Why SHOULDN'T society help people out who want to carry on the species? We pay to keep ill people alive, so why not pay to bring new life into the society as well?
PS Wen Jian is being ironic. (S) He even paraphrased brass eye and everything...
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
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Prodigal
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As for breeding: If we don't breed, we are genetically dead. The urge to breed is literally the driving force of life on this planet. Why SHOULDN'T society help people out who want to carry on the species? We pay to keep ill people alive, so why not pay to bring new life into the society as well?
There is a difference between carrying on the species and having extra children just to get extra benefits. And why should we pay for people who cant have children to do so? There may be a reason why they cant have children.
Your comments about sick and holiday pay are a straw man. These cannot be compared to months and months of maternity leave.
PS Wen Jian is being ironic. (S) He even paraphrased brass eye and everything... Never having seen it, I had no way of knowing that.
_____________________________________________________ It is not a competition. It is a web forum.
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Wag
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Sarah (9/20/2006)
There is a difference between carrying on the species and having extra children just to get extra benefits.
And what would that be?
Sarah (9/20/2006)
And why should we pay for people who cant have children to do so? There may be a reason why they cant have children.
Indeed. Thou shalt not thwart the will of God.
Marios
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Wag
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| If we continue to breed we are equally in trouble - planetary resources being taken up by extra bodies. It is better to stop a life from being made than to force it to struggle for resources. The point is that biological imperatives, combined with societal pressures driven by those imperatives, are driving each individual to try to breed. Its a natural thing. Life is very resilient and it is not all that hard to actually produce offspring. The point is that there is no actual need for everyone on the planet to breed. We have no major predators, disease is no longer a major problem due to vaccination, we live longer and more productive lives than we used to due to advances in medicine. All of these mean a population expansion. It is therefore ludicrous to forbid a woman the right to choose not to have a child if they don't want one. Of course, I am reminded of the rather excellent scene in the 2nd series of Battlestar Galactica when the president, who is pro choice, realises that she has to enforce a no abortion law because if she doesn't the very small population will decline rapidly. Very nice example of real politik...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
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Devil's Advocate
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And why should we pay for people who cant have children to do so? There may be a reason why they cant have children.
Let's flip that around the other way. why SHOULDN'T we do everything in our power to allow people to have kids if they want to?
(The "Reason" they can't have kids is because they are infertile, a condition that can be corrected. There is a "Reason" that hemophiliacs can't clot blood, but I don't see people protesting abotu factor 8)
Your comments about sick and holiday pay are a straw man. These cannot be compared to months and months of maternity leave.
Yes they can. why can't they? You could argue (though you'd have to give good reasons) that 28 days holiday can't be compared to 26weeks maternity leave, due to it's length. but surely it's about paying someone *not* to work?
But what about long-term sick? I've known people who have been off work for "months and months" so it is comparable.
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
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Devil's Advocate
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It is better to stop a life from being made than to force it to struggle for resources.
Can you back that up? I know I'd rather struggle for resources than not-exist...
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
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Prodigal
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| Tart - do you think getting extra money out of the state is a good reason to have children? So you you think children conceived solely for the benefits are likely to have as good a start as those children that are born because their parents genuinely wanted children? I have nothing against people having children. I dont object to paying towards schools because education benefits everyone. But I do object to paying for incentive after incentive for people to have children they cant afford. As for holiday pay etc, I never suggested abolishing maternity pay, I merely pointed out that there is no comparison. People being off sick for months is unlikely to bankrupt a company because after a while the money goes to statutory sick pay, whereas Maternity pay comes from the company. So the argument is specious. Nor can you compare fertility treatment to factor 7, factor 8, or insulin. No-one dies because they cant have children. Another straw man. Lets take this back to the initial topic - do you agree with what is happening in the US then? Do you disagree with contraception and abortion? Do you think women should just pop out baby after baby whatever the consequences? Or are you simply being argumentative for the sake of it?
_____________________________________________________ It is not a competition. It is a web forum.
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