|
|
|
Initiate
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Monday, September 11, 2006 4:08 PM
Posts: 3,
Visits: 6
|
|
As its Muggers Alley I thought I'd set myself up for a beating. Dumbing down rules to give easier access to new players is downright limiting. For example when I was working at the origional Treasure Trap at Peckforton Castle we used the now classic 6 points a hit system. So basicly your 1st Level Guardian has 10 per location and can take two hits before the locations -2 and is therefore defunct. Wats so complicated about that. Two hits to a location and it stops working OK so then you add armour which detracts from the single 6 point hit by say two points (for 2 point leather) you can take three hits to a location. Works for me!!! OK so now we get into the supposed modern hit system where armour detracts full hits until you've got over your total then it comes off of you location. Simple yes Realistic no. Realistic Penetration of armour was better simulated in the TT system. Debate??? Anyway I'll pop back tomorrow to see how badly I get Beaton.
Ex-TT? try: http://www.treasuretrap.net
|
|
|
|
|
Prodigal
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Today @ 7:39 PM
Posts: 587,
Visits: 3,959
|
|
The problem with systems which are similar to Original Treasure Trap is not 6-points-per-Single or subtractive AC or any one aspect. The problem with such systems is the hugely complicated interaction of many aspects like that (6-points-per-Single and Subtractive AC combined with spells giving you more temporary AC under different terms, spells costing you small quantities of life points, attacks costing you random different quantities of life points like the infamous Bastard Double). Although standard-issue Subtractive AC does get really complicated quite fast if anyone is calling anything other than Single (because a Double isn't just Two Singles, as your armour only subtracts from the first Single...).
You can generally tell when a system is overcomplicated because it needs battleboarding. Systems which require battleboarding are probably overcomplicated, or they wouldn't need to continually check up on their players. It is possible to use elements of Original TT Stuff without getting to the point that you need to battleboard.
There are ways of doing Subtractive AC which are not as awful as the original idea. For instance 'I take one degree less damage from things' (so Halves become Nothings, Singles become Halves etc) is much easier accountancy-wise and not that much less 'realistic', although not quite as fine-grained. Even '6 points of damage per Single, your armour subtracts from every degree you take' would be better - so if I have 1AC, a Single does five points and a Double does ten points (although you still have the trouble with Half being an accepted unit - is that 2 or 3 points? - so you might have to have '1AC means 1 off every half, 2 off a single, four off a double and so on', which is still fine because as you say, you can calculate everything beforehand and only have to keep track of the number of hits you take).
Maelstrom: Jessily the Wemic, previously Tourmaline of Weaver
CUTT: Kerriville the Ninth, previously Ref 07/08
EOS: Study the Venin
|
|
|
|
|
Champion
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:53 PM
Posts: 345,
Visits: 679
|
|
| Dumbing down or evolution of the hobby? I vote the latter... you have to let the hobby evolve otherwise it'll stagnate. If you don't like it then I'm afraid you'll just have to lump it... I mean, gaffa weapons, making costumes out of old curtains and tying a bed sheet round your neck for a cloak are all 'classic' but I never hear anyone arguing that we should reintroduce them. 6 points a hit may be 'classic' but it's also bloody stupid and almost totally illogical. LRP is a game without dice so there's no need to have a single, un-enhanced, non-magical hit do more than one point of damage. I'm not as crusty as others on this board but I've done both 'X points a hit with battleboard after the fight' and 'one point a hit no battleboard' games and find the latter to be more fun and better paced from the perspective of not having to stop the action to work out damage. As for realism: a) neither system is more realistic, you cannot acheive realism when damage is worked out as a series of numbers. b) if realism really bothers you that much do re-enactment!
Ascendancy LRP: Redvers Fenn-Cooper Crimson Requiem: Crew Real Life: Doug McKerracher Quis custodiet ipsos custard?
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:18 PM
Posts: 2,003,
Visits: 8,520
|
|
The thing I really hated about the original TT system was the concept of 'bouncing' (I don't know if it was in from the start) - you have 6pts of armour (I think you could only do it with certain armour types - like magic/spirit/blah), now Singles (6pts) 'bounce' off you and do nothing at all. Since Singles are generally the most common damage call (more than that and you generally have to limit the number of monsters stringently - less people get to play, less interesting encounters - generally), getting 6pts of armour then mullering through everything calling 'No Effect' is a very effective strategy (sucks to monster and extremely unrealistic).
Marios
|
|
|
|
|
Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 12:42 PM
Posts: 1,178,
Visits: 1,030
|
|
| Hence many systems introduced one point of damage from bruising to sort the bounce out....
|
|
|
|
|
Heroic Knight
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, August 21, 2008 4:02 PM
Posts: 206,
Visits: 644
|
|
Fuck maths, complexity or "dumbing down". I go to LRP events to have fun, which I get by dressing up like an idiot and pretending to be someone else. Anything that gets in the way of my pretence is bad, anything that enables me to slip into the role easier is good - for me, that really is the only thing that matters.
No spoken or written word can ever be a substitute for one's own practical experience. No-one too can convince another who does not wish to believe what he is told - only the doubter loses by his incredulity - T.C. Lethbridge
|
|
|
|
|
I do talk a good fight
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Today @ 11:06 AM
Posts: 1,861,
Visits: 5,740
|
|
I think I've played in just about every style of LRP game system in the UK, from 1st Gen games at Peckforton, to 2nd Gen games at Spirit of Adventure (just as complex, but with points rather than levels for character advancement, allowing more choice), to gritty low-hit systems like Dumnonni, to "just roleplay it" games and freeforms.
The apparently "dumbed down" games may appear less "realistic" in their armour rules, but even that is open to interpretation. We know far, far more about the real-world effects of armour than we did in the days of Treasure Trap, but frankly, we still don't know exactly how it works, or exactly how to model that in a game. Certainly the simplistic approach of TT in failing to relate weapon type to armour penetration is, if anything, far more "unrealistic" than the still more simplistic, supposedly dumbed-down, low-hit approach of Dumnonni et al.
For me, TT's rules and its direct descendants are inevitably inelegant, maths-heavy, and inconsistent. The level of complexity they bring to the game just doesn't add enough in benefits to make it worthwhile -- it always means that games have to be interrupted (and thus immersion broken, and suspension of disbelief un-suspended) by battleboarding, and it always puts some people off by virtue of the level of mathematical ability required to comprehend it. Personally I'm quite capable of doing complex maths, but I'd far rather do LRP.
I'm not knocking TT or its rules system in the slightest; I had a grand time at Peckforton. It's just that the rules are very much artefacts of their time, and they've been improved upon. I wouldn't choose to ride a 19th century bone-shaker bicycle either, if I had the option of a modern MTB... but it was still revolutionary for its time.
http://www.hyboriantales.com
PD: Ghostdance ("The most irritating curse I've ever encountered" -- NPC played by H.)
Riftworld: Rossar Kuug ("Clearly mad, because he thinks he's a Com-Trow Skirmisher" - Aela)
Hyborian Tales: Crew, cook, dogsbody, general labourer, toilet cleaner ("Dangerously overoptimistic ref" -- Tom Nowell)
Otherwise usually crew ("Quite spry & fit, & willing to wear a big costume & run around a lot" -- various event organisers)
"My other oversized foam weapon is THE LORD" -- Questionable Content
|
|
|
|
|
Squire
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:04 PM
Posts: 29,
Visits: 77
|
|
| I agree with Richie. How does a weekend spent doing maths every half hour add to the experience of roleplaying anything other than a mathematician ?
|
|
|
|
| | |