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Wag
 
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Andy Rimmer (5/15/2006)
What would they teach? Most of us aren't British-we're Roman, English, Irish, Danish, Norwegian, German, Norman,etc these islands have been the last destination of every migration since mankind first got itchy feet, and the only real British live in isolated pockets in the West and get accused of racism and ignorance when they try to preserve their culture (and even they came here from the continent).I'd argue that that mix is exactly what makes us British. I'd also argue that the people you describe as 'real British' are actually Britons, and that their culture and history are one more ingredient in the melting pot that is Britain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
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Wag
Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:39 PM
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balor (5/28/2006)
Andy Rimmer (5/15/2006)
What would they teach? Most of us aren't British-we're Roman, English, Irish, Danish, Norwegian, German, Norman,etc these islands have been the last destination of every migration since mankind first got itchy feet, and the only real British live in isolated pockets in the West and get accused of racism and ignorance when they try to preserve their culture (and even they came here from the continent).EDIT - Sorry, Sarah here, I didnt realise Balor hadnt logged out. I'd argue that that mix is exactly what makes us British. I'd also argue that the people you describe as 'real British' are actually Britons, and that their culture and history are one more ingredient in the melting pot that is Britain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God... Ruins of Empire 1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester
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Wag
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Andy Rimmer (5/17/2006)
(At work we call it the post code lottery)
Do you work for the Daily Mail by any chance?
PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
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Wag
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Balor- that's what I said, in my opinion an Armenian asylum seeker has just as much right to be British as the Queen does. This nation is built up of successive waves of immigrants, each bringing new ideas and philosophy to the mix.
Which leaves a lot of questions-How do we teach this in schools? Is it the responsibility of parents to teach this (can parents teach this)? Does it need a fundamental shake up of the way in which non- english Brits are portrayed? etc.
Chalicier-I'm a manager for Youth and Community Services, I have to provide a service which is a Universal entitlement (under WAG, UN, EU and UK law), however the same gov't bodies who want Universal access-also stream funding, targetting (in Wales) 100 communities, which are identified as areas of need- based on the index of deprivation.
In one instance a Council estate of less than 300 households recieves the same budget for Youth work as the entire county of Denbighshire.
These funding decisions are not based upon local assessments of need, but National (fairly crude) target indicators, there are no needy communities in Aberystwyth, because it's a University town (and a higher than average percentage of population are educated to degree level or higher-yes that really is one of the indicators).
Hence the Phrase "Post Code Lottery", it's not what you need , it's where you live! (this related to a comment earlier in this thread, about targetting of resources)
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Prodigal
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Andy Rimmer (5/30/2006)
Balor- that's what I said, in my opinion an Armenian asylum seeker has just as much right to be British as the Queen does. This nation is built up of successive waves of immigrants, each bringing new ideas and philosophy to the mix.Thats not how I read 'most of us aren't British. My point is that British isnt the people who lived on this island back before the Romans, British is the composite result of all the various waves of immigration. So how to teach it? By stressing the melting pot element of our society, look at each contributory culture and examine what it has contributed. Or perhaps by teaching how people view Britishness - consider all points of view and teach each one in a balanced way.
_____________________________________________________ It is not a competition. It is a web forum.
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and Minimeister
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Sarah (5/30/2006)
Andy Rimmer (5/30/2006)
Balor- that's what I said, in my opinion an Armenian asylum seeker has just as much right to be British as the Queen does. This nation is built up of successive waves of immigrants, each bringing new ideas and philosophy to the mix.Thats not how I read 'most of us aren't British. My point is that British isnt the people who lived on this island back before the Romans, British is the composite result of all the various waves of immigration. So how to teach it? By stressing the melting pot element of our society, look at each contributory culture and examine what it has contributed. Or perhaps by teaching how people view Britishness - consider all points of view and teach each one in a balanced way. It's not a bad plan. Perhaps the most obvious starting point would be food?  Then you could look at music etc. (Like Ska say) and then where would you go?
There is only overconfidence and terror.
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Wag
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That's pretty much what we've been doing in the Youth Service and it works fairly well(along with workshops, exchange visits etc) , but we have a voluntary engagement relationship with Young People at the core of our work, so little pressure is placed on an individual young person.
Whereas schools have a compulsory relationship- leading to qualification at 16+; how relevant is citizenship, if you're in year 9, struggling to deal with your SAT's and are already under pressure to achieve good GCSE's, in "real subjects".
Especially if you then go home to attitudes like "bloody asylum seekers, nicking our jobs", or "be careful all white's are rascists" etc.
Changing the views of children is just one step, and even that isn't achievable if the rest of us don't take it on board and change our attitudes, as I said at the beginning of this thread, these island have always been the melting pot, and they're still the end of the road for anyone too poor to buy an airline ticket, you'd think that after thousands of years, we'd understand-this is what makes the British, British.
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Wag
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Last Login: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:34 PM
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Andy Rimmer (5/30/2006)
Chalicier-I'm a manager for Youth and Community Services, I have to provide a service which is a Universal entitlement (under WAG, UN, EU and UK law), however the same gov't bodies who want Universal access-also stream funding, targetting (in Wales) 100 communities, which are identified as areas of need- based on the index of deprivation.
Meh, I was kidding. I just really hate the phrase "post code lottery" with a passion. Along with the phrase "political correctness".
Think about it. It's not a lottery at all, lotteries are drawn at random. In the system you design scanty resources are applied according to need, which is only sensible if you don't have much cash to throw around. It has nothing to do with some kind of arbitrary meting out by region, which is what the phrase suggests - it's based on need. Pretty much every time the phrase "postcode lottery" is used it's in a similar scenario.
PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
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