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Posted Tuesday, August 22, 2006 2:08 PM


Knight

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Hello,

last month I was one of the 350+ participants of the Dragonbane larp in Sweden, so here's a review of it from my point of view.

I got interested in the Dragonbane project in april 2005, after checking out the site I was sold and subscribed and paid within days. I even booked my flight. So I was a bit unhappy when they postponed the event to 2006. But I used the flight I already booked to help build Cinderhill for a week.
In the meantime I became one of the webmasters of Dragonbane and thus helped out that way.
While the event came closer I became a bit concerned, as a webmaster I was given lots of 3D pictures of Cinderhill and such, but no actual real pictures. Doubt was creeping in on me, but in the end I made the jump, wrote an extensive character background and finished my costume and character gear (yes, I now have IC underwear )

Day before the game
So I arrived rather late to the boot camp (which looked like a mess) where my costume and gear was checked, sadly my mandolin (bought especially for the game, with painted dragon on it) was deemed 'too shiny' and I couldn't bring it along. But I noticed that no-one checked what I brought along after the checking, so if I were a bad boy I could've brought my mandolin along to the game area.
An hour after the checking of my gear I was transported to the game area.
Arriving at the Dragontamer camp I soon met my fellow bandmember (each tamer was part of a tamerband, which in it's turn was part of a tamer lineage) and got a space in the band-tent (nice looking big viking tent).
Since this was the day before the actual game started the camp was still a little mess with people putting on henna tattoo's and such. Later that day we heard that the Witches camp needed some help and some tamers went on to help them out, in the end the Witches started the game 1 day later.
The same day me and my fellowband members went scouting for Cinderhill and we found it after 1 hour or so, the part we could see looked very nice indeed: tiled roofs, paintings on the walls and such.
After our scouting trip we went back to the Tamercamp and were just in time for the speach of Timo (the main-organiser).

Game start, day 1
The next day we woke in-character and the game started.
So we woke up and all went to the campfire to help out with cooking (we had to do our own cooking, but ingredients was provided). This first day we mostly stayed in camp and helped building the wickerman for the ceremony that evening to remember the friends who died in the battle that occured the day before the game started.
As said people could easily smuggle whatever they wanted to the game area, so I was a bit disappointed when I saw people with OC shoes walking around.
The wickerman burning was one of the best parts of the whole event, there was nice singing going on while we were mourning our fallen.
At night we heard some loud bangs and went to investigate, we found nothing but assumed it was the dragon, since trees were cut (using explosives) in a straight line, so back we told the others that it must've been the dragon.

Day 2
The next day we went for scouting and discovered that this was a huge game area! We finally managed to get to the main road leading to Cinderhill (our first scouting was done entirely through the forest). Following that road we heard an engine in the distance. Since we suspected that the dragon would be the only engine we would hear we were suddely alarmed. We moved slower on the road, ready to run into the forest, until we saw... a generator, right there next to the road! What a big disappointment was that, the organisers built an in-character village in the middle of nowhere to have no modern stuff shown and then they put this damn generator next to the main road that about 95% of all participants will use if the want to go from Cinderhill to one of the camp!
But on we went and then we arrived to Cinderhill, well it looked very nice and very real. Lot's of people walking in the village with a goal, people going to the bakery for food and fresh bread, others delving water from the wells. So I quickly forgot about the generator, cause this felt real.
Back at the camp it started to rain and most people stayed in their tent, for an in-game reason we build a new wickerman but due to the rain we feared that we wouldn't be able to light it, when the main-organiser came into our tent (wearing modern clothes!) and gave us 2 flares to help light it. We gave them to the guys building the wickerman and wanted to go back to Cinderhill (it was raining a bit less) when we saw a new person coming with modern clothes telling people that they had 30 minutes to light the wickerman or else there would be no special effects. How's that for ruining game experience? This was another bad move from the organisers, never tell people off-game that they have to do something, especially not because special effects stuff is getting wet!!!
Anyway I and fellow bandmember Egel went on our way to Cinderhill, but we never reached it, after travelling 2 hours in heavy rain we came back upon our camp (been travelling in circles it seemed ) just in time for the wickerman ceremony, it must have been the hand of our god.
This time the wickerman ceremony was not as good as the day before, it was all loud bangs, flares, smoke and such, not the silent, real-feeling ceremony of the day before.

Following days
The following days it was dry and we had good role-play (besides seeing the watertruck in Cinderhill filling the wells ). Having then spent 2 days in the village I must say that it felt *real*, there were elder people, children and the in-betweens. I was really amazed by the good roleplay of the children!

Last day (= day 5)
During the last day we were getting really anxious about the Dragon coming to demand sacrifices, so we Tamers built ourselfs some ballista's and dragonlances, felling tree's to build them. And when evening came we waited, and waited and then we heard it: the sound of a cheap village-fair soundsystem. Sorry to all people who put so much effort in it, but that was how it sounded to me. Then we saw the dragon and again it looked not as they hyped (but that's another story).
In the end we had some good roleplay moments while the dragon was there.

Conclusion
Besides the couple of negative moments (generator next to main road, off-game people telling us what to do, water-truck filling wells and the dragon not being what was hyped), this was the BEST larp I ever experienced.
The village looked real, we had to cook for ourselves with ingredients that matched the setting. When we needed firewood we just cut a tree down, we did the same for making ballista's and spears.
The high standards helped alot since what you saw was mostly what you got
The simple game rules enhanced role-playing, in the end I almost believed I was really there, that it was not just a larp. At evenings there would be tamer duels, storytelling, singing and dancing. It was just great.

And for the purists: yes, there was nudity :-), and I was not 'shocked' .
All the people who were scared away by the high standards (especially the underwear part) or the possibility of nudity: shame on you, you missed a great experience!
For me Dragonbane showed me how a larp can be if you set (very) high standards, it's only sad that the organisers didn't enforce those high standards on themselves, i.e. generator, watertruck, telling us in modern clothes what to do during the game, ...
Next time, don't hesitate, just go, making IC-underwear is not that big a deal ;-)

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Post #11310
Posted Tuesday, August 22, 2006 3:39 PM


Wag

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Um....

Given that they hyped the dragon so Much I'd consider a mention of what you felt wrong with it relevant to a review. Please.

Also... What was Timo's opening Speech.

And really.... No Mandolin but they bought flares to light the wicker-man... after all that talk about how 'real' they were going to make it... that sounds like twattery.

Has anyone got any pictures of Cinderhill that don't make it look like a plywood scout camp? I'd be interested.

Post #11321
Posted Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:55 PM
Prodigal

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Thanks for that. Things I'd like to know more about;

- why did the witches have to start a day later? Surely with all the prep time the camp should have been ready, or was it the players that caused the delay?

- your mandolin was 'too shiny'? Sounds petty to me to be honest, especially considering the generator! Had any guidelines been issued about musical instruments before hand?

- how much input did you get into your character design?

- how attached to the 'world of yesterday' did you feel, having not played in it? For example, did you feel you could care about the friends who'd died if you'd never met them?

- what was the generator for? Was it concealed at all?

- how big was the site? It sounds huge if you could walk for 2 hours and not arrive at Cinderhill. Did the extra size help or hinder roleplaying?

- I'd be interested in knowing which LRPs you've done before, as this will help guage what you're comparing it to.

- In the run up I felt that the logistics of things like sanitation and management of medical conditions was not being well thought through, can you comment on this?

- How did the skills allocation work out in practice?

- Did any 'deaths' occur and how well were these handled?

- and finally, did IC underwear actually enhance your experience? :-)
 


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Post #11328
Posted Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:10 PM
Wag

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Flannel (8/22/2006)
And really.... No Mandolin but they bought flares to light the wicker-man... after all that talk about how 'real' they were going to make it... that sounds like twattery.

Definitely sounds like a case of "you can't but we can, because we're in charge" to me. Still, I'd like to hear more. And pictures would be wonderful...



PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
Post #11329
Posted Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:53 AM


Knight

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What was wrong with the dragon?
I felt the dragon was to much hyped as a walking-talking-real_size-firebreathing dragon
And what we got was bad sounds (for me at least), only two legs 'twitched' so definately no walking.
The talking part worked well enough if only they didn't put the 'roar-effect' so high, cause everytime it was: "ssssh, the dragon is speaking,", dragon speaks, "what did it say?" Most of the time we couldn't make out what it was saying.
In the end the dragon looked like a non-moving big diorama, but it does seem that they were unlucky (read the last entry in the diary at www.dragonbane.org) cause alot of hydrolics for making it move where installed (I got a chance to see the inside of the dragon).

Timo's opening speech
Timo's speech before the game start was mostly about safety, common sense and such. He also stated that we could fire/throw anything at the dragon as long as it was not sharp (just before the dragon arrived 5 days later, we were told we couldn't throw anything at the dragon )
He also told that if we see people in orange overall's we'd better get away, cause they're the SFX guys.
Timo also told us how to cook dried reindeer, and such
All in all his speech was good and to the point, but it contained some excuses on why some things were not working/there.

Mandolin
Yeah, I do feel a bit cheated by that, especially since I bought it just for that game and my girlfriend painted a nice dragon on it (it was told in the playersmanual that wwe decorate our instruments).
A guideline was published by them, but being too shiny was not mentioned in it as a fault There was mention about decorating the instruments, but they also told that an instrument is something prized, so people take good care of it => shiny mandolin could either be brand new (which it actually was) or just someone taking good care of it.

Cinderhill
There are some pictures online, but I don't remember the links, but I do have to say that Cinderhill looked ok (although a bit unfinished). There were longhouses that had small gardens in front of them. There was a sheep-pen with real sheeps, bakkery looked real, you heard constant ringing sound from the blacksmith, etc.

Witches delay
The delay for the witches was mostly the fault organisers, it seemed that the witches camp was so simple (no tents, just a sheet to use as a 'roof'), that the players simply refused to use it like it was. The witches also needed to take part in the SFX training in order to handle those safely. But I think the UK-witch can answer that question better.

Character design
each group (max 8 people) had their own character coach and they helped out with creating your background. some coaches did a good job others didn't do much besides saying: "please make your background"

Attachment to the day of yesterday
I felt very attached to the day before the game started aka the big battle.
I wrote in my background that my lover died during the battle and that I went mad and killed the Cinderhillian who killed her. As a code of honor Tamers don't kill humans, so I brought great shame upon myself. This led to me constantly playing that I missed my lover and that I needed to regain my honor back.
I saw that most players really played very well to keep the effects of the battle real.

Generator
it was used for powering a caravan which was off the game area (big electric cable running to the caravan was visible) and I think it also powered an electric saw (that was used during the first two days of the game!) and a refridgerator (both saw and fridge were hidden well away).
The generator was in NO WAY hidden, it was plain in sight of the main road to the village!

Game area
it was HUGE. it helped alot in roleplaying because the camp were really seperate, but it also hindered it if members of the famous scouting band got lost in the forest (aka me ). But all things considered I liked the size although it could've been a little less huge :-)

Larp's I play(ed)
* Belgium: Manticore, Angst, Brug, Alcharion, Eternica, Poort, Caege, Avatar and Saga
* UK: Maelstrom
* Sweden: Dragonbane
* Germany: Conquest of Mythodea

My main problem with most Belgian larps is that it's mostly fighting => if there's a problem you kill it. But people are now trying to fix that and also provide other solutions for solving a problem than just killing it. Costume standards are rising in Belgium, but I'm still annoyed when I see people in blue jeans and Nike's. That's what I liked about Dragonbane, high standards and (almost) everybody followed them (only exception was some shoes being modern and not everybody had proper underwear)
What I like about Maelstrom is that it is player-lead, but I do not like the fact that there are people in modern clothes running around (aka refs and such). In my game (Manticore) the refs are all wearing ic clothes, but everybody knows who they are, we even put first aid people in an ic costume
Mythodea is mostly fighting, respawn, fighting, respawn, so that's not a larp I go to for roleplaying. I go there for the fighting

Logistics, sanitation and first aid
Logistics was bad at Dragonbane, excuses like: it's not our fault it's the postal service are no excuses. I think they had not really thought alot about it, thinking that there would never be a problem with it.
Sanitation: for us tamers it was a small building (3mx1.5m) that had a hole in the ground, real toilet paper, and a bar to sit on. It took some figuring out from me to know how to use it . Our's was also private, no peaking in and such
The Cinderhillians had toilets (still using earthground to cover up the droppings and such) but they were shared => you could see other people sitting on the toilet. It was a bit awkward to go to the toilet in Cinderhill, but I managed. Needs to say that I like my privacy, so I mostly used the tamer toilet, even if it was less comfortable
First Aid: well all the healers in the game were all first aid people, so that was ok, but since the site was huge and the only really good first aid equipment was in Cinderhill, this would've caused a problem if one of the witches got an emergency in their camp.
In fact one tamer managed to cut himself with an axe and thanks to a smuggled mobile they were able to alert the organisers and get a transport to the hospital (he needed 12 stitches)

Skills
Well this was an easy rule system: if you can heal in real life (aka first aid), you can heal people in the game. All the witches and some cinderhillians could do magic, only tamers and some cinderhillians could handle weapons. But since this game was more about roleplay, skills were only second place, it really was like: if you can do it, you just do it. I liked this alot, cause sometimes rules hinder the game instead of supporting it (in Belgium the time-stop moments really hinder gameplay)

Deaths
The only deaths that occured were either some NPC or a PC who died at the end of the game. I know of no PC who died before the last day.

Underwear
yes the underwear did enhance the experience. I mostly only saw my tent-mates' underwear, but it helped me stay in character. Cause if everything you see is real then the feeling of the game gets very real => that's way I was very annoyed with the generator and the couple of modern shoes & underwear that I saw.


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Post #11385
Posted Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:54 AM
Prodigal

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Thanks Jerm, thats interesting. I assume that you have provided feedback to the organisers so they can learn for any future projects?

My experience is that costume and roleplaying standards tend to be very high at small events, but a bit ropey at large scale events (which is probably attributable to 5% of the players), so trying to do something of such high quality at such a scale is perhaps pretty ambitious.

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Post #11395
Posted Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:06 PM
Squire

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I'm don't think I'm quite up to writing a full review, but I can fill in a few gaps from the Witches point of view perhaps.

As the smallest group in game by quite a long margin, it did feel like they got left to the very last minute. We didn't actually have a camp when people started arriving at the 'boot camp' - just parts of very crude tents almost ready to put together. Unlike the tamer tents, the witch tents were extremely basic, but then that was the idea. 2 wooden triangles with a rope between them and a canvas thrown on top.

Unfortunately, not a strong enough design to withstand the freak rainstorm the night before the event was due to start - hence we lost a day rebuilding. Still, at least this time we did it right with some provided hand axes to cut new poles.

Another thing that was last minute was the witches' magic rules - but I have to admit, I liked their finally settled carte blanche approach. If we could think up a spell, and role play it convincingly, it was allowed. Only 3 restrictions. No Immortality, No Resurrections, No Astral Travel. Of course, we couldn't just throw magic around - we had to make potions (or dolls, spell tablets, whatever) by way of ritual. No refs meant no one was enforcing that, so if you wanted to cheat, opportunity was there - but then anyone doing that was cheating themselves out of some good RP opportunities.

Another side to the magic was the chemistry 101 training session. Witches actually were given some quick step-by-step sfx training. Not all of us used any of the chemical stuff, but it was there to be used - and by some of the witches to great effect. One group went so far as to scent their clothes to smell bad for example, or others used chemicals to make various colour smokes as part of their spells, another used a potion that glowed in lieu of a lantern.

The whole no refs approach does raise an interesting issue - it relies strongly on players really entering into the spirit of the game and not taking advantage. I'm not convinced the same approach would work here, but I'd love to be proven wrong. It does mean though that players really have to know what's going on or be able to convincingly improvise, since there isn't a handy ref to ask for reference material in a pinch. It does make managing things like deaths and such impossible, since it becomes the responsibility of the player to decide when they are injured or dead - and I know a number of players who won't accept that and continue playing anyway.

As for the off-game stuff, yes it was there. People make a big deal of it. Personally, it didn't bother me in the slightest - we put up with far more in UK events. All things considered, I was impressed that the off-game interventions were at least generally kept to a minimum, and that the worst offences were apparently due to a need to destroy some of the pyrotechnics that had gotten wet in either the aforementioned rainstorm, or a second one that poured down on the 2nd night.

On the village.. the atmosphere was incredible. Walking in as a witch to see this village really did feel like walking into the real thing. OK, so much of that was down to players in-character reactions, but the village itself did feel like an authentic working village for the brief time we were there. In fact, I ended up staying there with the villagers for half the event, witch or no and the illusion held for the duration. More so than the tamer camp perhaps felt little different from visiting a faction at one of our fests.

I did love the 24hr time in. The idea of going to bed and then waking up in character really did add to the atmosphere. I'm not sure it'll work so well in the UK between the out of character tentage and other equipment we all bring along that would end up being used and the idea that muggers would be given free reign to slaughter characters in their sleep.

The dragon wasn't all it was supposed to be - partly due to damage in transit and a lack of wings. The neck was 'twisted' on the journey from Finland, hence much of the dragon's facial movements didn't work and the head was lop-sided. The scary voice they so carefully constructed, initally was impressive, but lost a lot of its impact when you worked out that you really had to concentrate to understand it. I did think the player/organiser playing the dragon didn't do such a good job of being a dragon. He just wasn't scary enough - to easily pleased or placated. But even so.. it's still the best phys-rep for a dragon I've seen yet, and it doubled as the sound system for the after-game party.

Another thing that I liked was the concept of an after-game party. What better chance to socialise with players out of character, get drunk and froth over the event? But of course, at the end of our events most people are too busy packing up and racing home. I'd love to be able to adopt this (apparently Danish LRP) custom.

Sarah (8/22/2006)

- why did the witches have to start a day later? Surely with all the prep time the camp should have been ready, or was it the players that caused the delay?

See above.

Sarah (8/22/2006)

- how much input did you get into your character design?


I still felt my character was my own. All the background was written and decided upon by me. The only restrictions imposed were game background related. The three factions were very tightly controlled in their nature. So, some character concepts simply wouldn't have worked and it was this that the