Rule7 Forums
Home       Members    Calendar    Who's On
Welcome Guest ( Login | Register )
        


12»»

Oversasting spells/psionics Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:29 PM


Wag

WagWagWagWagWagWagWagWag

Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:39 PM
Posts: 1,141, Visits: 3,626
This is one of my 'in the sauna' thoughts.

In the tabletop game 'Rolemaster', there was a method where a spell caster could, with a lot of risk, 'overcast' a spell. By this it was meant that they could cast a spell higher than their level or cast a spell which required a certain number of spellpoints when they didn't have those points. This meant, in extremis, they could pull off impressive spells but they risked a lot of problems if they failed or risked draining effects/scanners like head explosions etc.

Now, my question is: Is it possible to have such a system in a LRP game?

About the only way I can think of is something similar to what used to happen in QC if you decided to do a ritual without having enough points - you could go unconcsious for an hour and gain an extra point to add to the ritual. So, I suppose, some form of 'life burning' could be done where you, say, lose a body point for every magic point you need. You could even use a bead bag to get 'bad effects' in - some beads mean lose all power for a day, others mean actual damage, some mean no effect and so on.

But is there any other way to do it? And should this sort of thing be used?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Whispering God is your friend... trust the Whispering God...

Ruins of Empire

1st - 3rd Feb, 2008, Gladstone scout centre, Chester

Post #10938
Posted Friday, August 18, 2006 8:51 AM
Heroic Knight

Heroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic Knight

Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 12:39 PM
Posts: 102, Visits: 192
Song of Steel has just such a system.  It's a fairly standard spell point based system, but if you run out of spell points you can "overcast" which burns into your permanent spell points. If you try to overcast beyond your total permanent spell points, you explode.


You're entitled to your opinion as long as you realise it's wrong.

Post #10999
Posted Friday, August 18, 2006 9:37 AM


Heroic Knight

Heroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic Knight

Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:05 AM
Posts: 176, Visits: 577
A system I played in many years ago worked on an "essence point" system

But everyone started with one inate essence point and spellcasters could use this when all else had run out but fell unconcious for the 15 minutes required to meditate it back.

PD: Finch: Deader than most people manage
LT: Tirell Dreamstruck: Expert cat herder
GandTGamage - producer of Player events and other such occurances. http://amoss.co.uk/contrivance.htm

Post #11007
Posted Friday, August 18, 2006 9:52 AM
Prodigal

ProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigal

Group: System Moderators
Last Login: Today @ 1:48 PM
Posts: 571, Visits: 3,803
CUTT and DUTT both have notions of 'overcasting' for mages, although I think DUTT have a more precise system for it (CUTT's being 'get a ref').



Maelstrom: Jessily the Wemic, previously Tourmaline of Weaver
CUTT: Kerriville the Ninth, previously Ref 07/08
EOS: Study the Venin
Post #11013
Posted Friday, August 18, 2006 10:28 AM
Apprentice

ApprenticeApprenticeApprenticeApprenticeApprenticeApprenticeApprenticeApprentice

Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:22 PM
Posts: 10, Visits: 65
Trust me, in CUTT overcasting is the last thing any mage will be doing.

CUTT: Head Ref
Maelstrom: Eikon, the Golem (Spine of the World)
Post #11017
Posted Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:47 PM
Prodigal

ProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigalProdigal

Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:28 AM
Posts: 619, Visits: 2,458
ChessyPig (8/18/2006)
CUTT and DUTT both have notions of 'overcasting' for mages, although I think DUTT have a more precise system for it (CUTT's being 'get a ref').

  Yep.  At DUTT, you buy the ability to cast at a certain level (you cast at level 1 if you buy one rank of Elemental Skill, level 2 if you have two ranks, and so on).  Then you buy the spells you want separately, and each spell has its own level.  If a spell's level is higher than the number of ranks you have in Elemental Skill, then you can still cast it- but you will take hitpoint damage.  The situation is complicated somewhat by the question of which type of magical artefact the mage is drawing the power to cast from, but that's the principle of the situation.

  So, it's a little more complex than I'd ideally like, but in essence the situation is that a relatively weak mage can learn to cast a fairly powerful spell- but it will cost them a fair amount of XP to learn it, and mana to cast it, and they may well faint, start bleeding to death, or even die instantly if it's a *really* powerful spell.  That gives a certain amount of potential for dramatic sacrifices.  I also used to know a mage who, after casting a spell which gave them one hit point of damage, would discreetly apply fake blood in a way that looked as if they were having a nosebleed- that was cool, because it made it the magic they were using seem a bit more dangerous and taxing than it usually does in a high fantasy system.  In practice, however, I think most DUTT mages currently stick to casting spells which are too low-level to do them any damage (possibly this is a consequence of having a fairly dangerous low-hit system to begin with- going into a combat situation with even one extra hit point of damage could mean the difference between life and death).

  We also have a system where each mage uses up mana points every time they cast something.  If the amount of mana that a spell costs is higher than the amount of mana that a caster has left, then they can still cast the spell, but they will die instantly as the necessary power is drawn from their own body.  Slightly different mechanic, but the effect is similar- it means that mages can make final sacrifices if they choose to, but in practice it doesn't seem to happen very often.


  WARNING: the information above may have been subjected to dangerously high levels of ignorance.

OOC (and on Pagga): Carrie
Post #11343
Posted Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:44 AM
Wag

WagWagWagWagWagWagWagWag

Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Today @ 3:02 PM
Posts: 1,981, Visits: 8,373
I think there's a distinction here between a rule mechanic - you can do this and you will take X pts of damage, if that's more than you have left - you die! - and a narrativist segue - I am making a 'heroic sacrifice' where I will die - maybe momentously exploding and shattering the void gate, killing the bad guys, but not injuring my friends (unless they are also heroically sacrifically themselves).

The previous versions involved a lot more "you get a ref, the ref then decides whether it is a heroic blast what kills all the bad monsters". Obviously, that led to a slight disconnect - for some reason, when characters overcast out in the woods fighting teh monstars, it was a big explosion which killed all bad things within 30 feet. And yet, when a monster did it, or a player did it as a PvP option - let's say in a crowded bar - it didn't kill everything within 30 feet. So, in the end, I think it was decided to give it one standard effect - which can be applied 'heroically' without the need for ref intervention.
Marios
Post #11392
Posted Wednesday, August 23, 2006 2:38 PM
Heroic Knight

Heroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic KnightHeroic Knight

Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 8:36 AM
Posts: 150, Visits: 1,149
In old-school Treasure Trap, spellcasting always did damage to the caster. Possibly involving a quadratic equation...

(chris)
Post #11436
Posted Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:12 PM
Wag

WagWagWagWagWagWagWagWag

Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Today @ 3:02 PM
Posts: 1,981, Visits: 8,373
Ravensbourne (8/23/2006)
In old-school Treasure Trap, spellcasting always did damage to the caster. Possibly involving a quadratic equation...


Yes - all casting caused damage based on the square of the different between skill level and spell level. So, I suppose, there's two types of overcasting - casting above your skill level and casting spells of a level higher than your remaining mana (again, I think the difference just added on - 2nd level mage with 4 mana (somehow) tries to cast an 8th level spell - takes (8-2+4)^2 damage to body total). Not drastically more complex than normal casting.

However, for overcasting that killed the caster, there was precedence for causing an undefined area effect explosion. In a linear, no interactive players versus monsters only system, that seems to work out. When you start to run interactives and support player versus player or allow intelligent/similar status monsters, it doesn't work out so well.
Marios