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The Project - Time Travel LRP Expand / Collapse
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Posted Saturday, August 12, 2006 11:17 PM
Wag

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Right. This is the follow up to my Time Travel LRP thread in the Initial Ideas forum. For those who may have missed it, I'll include a basic summary of the idea so far. All of these ideas (particularly the terminology) are extremely embryonic and I'd appreciate absolutely any ideas anyone has.

The game, which I'm tentatively calling "The Project", is set in a world a century or two in advance of our own, where mankind has just managed to develop a technology capable of creating a temporary hole through time, thus allowing people to travel into the past through a "time gateway". Various companies and governmental bodies have come together to develop this technology, and all of them are demanding results. The success of The Project relies on the men and women that are to operate and use it - these being our players.

The game is intended to be on the Small Fest scale - 100-150 players would be ideal. The setup is a little different for an LRP event - the site will be split into two separate IC camps, one set in each time period. The only characters able to travel between these two areas will be the time travellers, which I've given the title of Project Field Agents (PFAs). These individuals are the result of an extensive period of training and a specialised biotechnological alteration which is required to allow them to survive the transit. Every other character must be in one or the other Time Zone for the entire event.

The Time Zone in which the time machine exists is referred to as Core Time, and the time period to which the time gateway leads is referred to as Target Time. Core Time remains the same (albeit with the obvious intervening periods between events), while Target Time changes at each event as the gateway is pointed to a new period in history. Target Time could easily be the Renaissance one event, then prehistoric at the next, then modern-day at the next. The choice of Target Time is down to player decision, except where this is impractical (for example, it'd be really rather difficult to do a Modern Day setting in many ways, due to needing urban sites for most major historical occurences). The aims of the PFAs are also for the players to decide, although in general they'll need to keep their backers happy.

At each event, each player is required to have 2 separate PCs.
The first of these is their Core Time character, which is by definition a person involved in The Project. This could include (but are most certainly not limited to):

- A Project Field Agent (travelling into the past to achieve the Project's objectives)
- Technicians (controlling the machinery and watching over the technology)
- Scientists (finding new ways to use the technology and investigating the scientific ramifications)
- Doctors (keeping tabs on the medical effects of the time gate and healing injured PFAs)
- Journalists (maintaining a watch over The Project, trying to get past the wall of silence and find out what's happening)
- Historians (attempting to determine the effects of The Project and using its unique capabilities to answer the unanswered questions about history)
- Security (keeping back unwanted elements like protestors, industrial spies and the aforementioned journalists)
- Management (making the decisions, managing the resources and dealing with the Company/Department)

The second of these is the Target Time character, which will change at each event. These could literally be any personality from history, but a few examples are given below. In general Target Time characters can be either historical figures, or invented by the player as appropriate to the time.
As a rule, if there are obvious historical roles in the setting, they will be given to players who ask in advance and are able to produce the necessary costumes, etc for themselves.

Period Ideas (these are just a few possibilities, history is crawling with good settings)

- 1620s France: The court of King Louis XIII, probably one of the most romantic periods in history outside the Renaissance. Cardinal Richeleu, King Louis, Queen Anne, Charles de Luynes (the King's "friend"), and any Three Musketeers character you wish to name are all potential characters. Are the legends true?

- 1075, England: The Revolt of the Earls. Three of the Earls created during the Conquest of England conspire to overthrow William while he defends his territories in Normandy. But is one of them set upon betrayal? Ralph de Guader, Emma of Hereford, Roger de Breteuil, and the mighty Waltheof of Northumberland are all possibilities, and there's no end to the lickspittles and knives in the dark that could accompany this ill-fated expedition.

- 1405, England: The (Non-)Battle of Woodbury Hill. Owain Glyndwr, the young Henry V, Jean de Rieux (Marshall of France), and so on. A mysterious event where two huge armies met each other on the field of battle, viewed each other for 8 days, and then withdrew. Perhaps The Project can answer that question?

- 31 BC, Actium: The long wait as the armies of Marc Anhony and Octavian (later Augustus) wait for the results of the sea battle between the fleets that will likely decide the fate of the two sides. Legend has it that leaders of both sides, once friends and allies, met in that night while they waited. Octavian, Marc Antony, Cleopatra, Agrippa and the traitor Delius are all real-life possibilities, and pretty much any Roman or Egyptian character would make sense.

- 312, Rome: The Battle of Milvian Bridge. Emperor Constantine and his generals meet and discuss the tactics for the following day. Christian history states that Emperor Constantine had a vision granted by God, which told him he would conquer under the sign of Christ. Are they right? Constantine himself, his generals and allies and wandering priests are all possible characters.



PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
Post #10373
Posted Saturday, August 12, 2006 11:30 PM
Wag

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As for the game itself, this will be mostly player-led. Target Time characters based upon historical figures will be expected to at least attempt to make the same decisions as were made historically, although this is of course subject to the strange tides of the average LRP fest Core Time characters can do pretty much what they want.

Core Time characters are (nearly) all representatives of a Backer. These Backers are the equivalent of Factions or Allegiances in other games; they represent the powers in the game, and it is these bodies which you must attempt to provide results for. Backers will in general either be Corporations (big money looking for major returns on their investment), Agencies (government departments looking for specific aims in the name of their country) or Interests (a catch-all term for those other bodies or individuals with the resources and clout to influence The Project).
A Backer provides the Resources needed to run your part of The Project. If you give your Backer what it wants, then you'll get more Resources; if not, then you run the risk of losing Resources or even getting shut down. Between them the PCs need to expend a certain amount of Resources operating The Project and keeping it going; beyond that they can do as they wish with their Resources.

These Resources can be used for a variety of purposes. PCs can be given special equipment or enhancements by expending Resources. Players can request external help from other bodies using their Resources (hiring outside scientists, for example). And, last of all, PCs can be given special training using Resources to pay for it - and this is the only method of character advancement available to a Core Time character.
In other words, want to learn to sharpshoot with your laser rifle? Better persuade your Manager that you really need it, then, because he's going to have to give up Resources to pay for it.



PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
Post #10374
Posted Saturday, August 12, 2006 11:34 PM
Wag

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The above is what I've come up with so far (plus some flangephysics indicating how the Time Travel actually works and so on). What I really need help with is the rules.

Basically, I can't see how to come up with one set of rules that covers two completely disparate time periods. Bearing in mind that it's possible to take Core Time equipment into Target Time, how would one make a rulesystem which would cope with all of these different power levels? How would you make it fair? (Do we even want it to be fair?)

Finally, I should mention that I don't think I'll ever be able to run this. I've got a baby on the way and a regular fantasy system due to start soon. But I'd love to think that this is possible, that it was actually something that could be done - and perhaps even someone might run it?



PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
Post #10375
Posted Sunday, August 13, 2006 12:30 AM
Prodigal

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  This looks interesting... I have nitpicky questions, as usual.

  Will there be IC reasons to justify why some target time destinations are more feasible than others (why it makes more sense to choose 1620s France over 1980s New York)?  If it were me, I think I'd be inclined to give the PCs a list of specific destinations, and then come up with some pseudoscientific reason for why they can't go anywhere else yet ("fluctuations in the integrity of the space-time continuum", or something).  You could also give some of the Core Time people the ability to research ways to get to new destinations, but make it so that have only limited control over the result (e.g. they could choose to research a new route to a time and place somewhere in the Americas and near a large amount of gold, and then wind up finding out how to get to Gold Rush era California or an Aztec shrine, but not Fort Knox).  I'm sure there are other ways around this issue, but that's the first one I can think of off the top of my head.

  Likewise, there might be some technical reason for why the time machine doesn't work if there are very large objects nearby (interference with the signal)- that would explain why the time travellers can never go directly to the Palace of Versailles, the World Trade Centre, or any other hard-to-physrep landmarks, and have to settle for visiting key meetings in secret remote locations which look remarkably like scout camps .

  If the PFAs go to the target time location and manage to IC fuck things up in the first ten minutes, is there anything to stop them from going back to Core Time, then travelling to the Target Time location, aiming to arrive at a point fifteen minutes before they fucked things up?

  Can PFAs in target time go back to core time whenever they feel like it?  Can the core time technicians bring a PFA back to core time without the PFA's assistance (e.g., if the PFA is knocked unconscious, tied up, or refusing to go back?)

  If there's a feature of the historical period that OOC historians still debate over, then who decides which version is canon in target time?  If for some reason you wanted to have an event where target time involved Richard III, who would have the final say on whether he was really a crazy hunchbacked child-killer- the person playing him, or the refs? 

chalicier (8/12/2006)
 312, Rome: The Battle of Milvian Bridge. Emperor Constantine and his generals meet and discuss the tactics for the following day. Christian history states that Emperor Constantine had a vision granted by God, which told him he would conquer under the sign of Christ. Are they right? Constantine himself, his generals and allies and wandering priests are all possible characters.

  A potential issue here is: what do you do if someone has strong OOC feelings one way or another about the existence of the Christian God and whether he chose to manifest himself to Constantine?  Ditto for anything else involving real world religious events.  I'm not saying you're necessarily likely to have this issue come up in play- it's hard to say, since it's not something I've ever seen a larp attempt before.

 

chalicier (8/12/2006)
The second of these is the Target Time character, which will change at each event. These could literally be any personality from history, but a few examples are given below. In general Target Time characters can be either historical figures, or invented by the player as appropriate to the time.
As a rule, if there are obvious historical roles in the setting, they will be given to players who ask in advance and are able to produce the necessary costumes, etc for themselves.

  So, will it be mostly crew who end up playing IC servants, slaves, etc (I'm not saying that playing a slave can't be fun, but it seems likely that most people are more likely to want to play nobles).

  Something else to bear in mind is that the range of interesting female roles may be somewhat limited- there are lots of interesting female historical figures (you've mentioned Cleopatra and Emma of Hereford), but in general it seems likely that the interesting male roles will outnumber the interesting female roles.  This isn't as big an issue as it would be if the entire event was set in target time (since women who feel like playing something combatty can always play a chief security guard or something), but it may be something to bear in mind.

Edit: I posted that before I read this:

chalicier (8/12/2006)
The above is what I've come up with so far (plus some flangephysics indicating how the Time Travel actually works and so on). What I really need help with is the rules.

  Afraid I can't be much help there... apart from anything else, it might suggest I was doing something useful 

chalicier (8/12/2006)

Finally, I should mention that I don't think I'll ever be able to run this. I've got a baby on the way

  Congratulations!

 

chalicier (8/12/2006)
and a regular fantasy system due to start soon. But I'd love to think that this is possible, that it was actually something that could be done - and perhaps even someone might run it?

  Sadly I don't know of anyone who's currently looking to set up a new system- but I don't think there's any harm in discussing hypotheticals now and then.

  I apologise- I don't think I have the energy to go back through my post and change every "will you do X?" to "would it hypothetically be a good idea for the organisers of this or a similar game to do X?" ...so let's just pretend that I did.


  WARNING: the information above may have been subjected to dangerously high levels of ignorance.

OOC (and on Pagga): Carrie
Post #10376
Posted Sunday, August 13, 2006 12:49 AM
Wag

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This looks interesting... I have nitpicky questions, as usual.

Will there be IC reasons to justify why some target time destinations are more feasible than others (why it makes more sense to choose 1620sFrance over 1980s New York)? If it were me, I think I'd be inclined to give the PCs a list of specific destinations, and then come up with some pseudoscientific reason for why they can't go anywhere else yet ("fluctuations in the integrity of the space-time continuum", or something). You could also give some of the Core Time people the ability to research ways to get to new destinations, but make it so that have only limited control over the result (e.g. they could choose to research a new route to a time and place somewhere in the Americas and near a large amount of gold, and then wind up finding out how to get to Gold Rush era California or an Aztec shrine, but not Fort Knox). I'm sure there are other ways around this issue, but that's the first one I can think of off the top of my head.

Likewise, there might be some technical reason for why the time machine doesn't work if there are very large objects nearby (interference with the signal)- that would explain why the time travellers can never go directly to the Palace of Versailles, the World Trade Centre, or any other hard-to-physrep landmarks, and have to settle for visiting key meetings in secret remote locations which look remarkably like scout camps .

That's one of the oft-remarked peculiarities of history, don'tyaknow - all historical events take place in areas bearing am extraordinary resemblance to scout camps This is one of the biggest holes in the concept so far, to be honest, and thus far I've not come up with an answer better than yours.

If the PFAs go to the target time location and manage to IC fuck things up in the first ten minutes, is there anythingto stop themfrom going back to Core Time, thentravelling to theTarget Time location,aiming to arriveat a point fifteen minutesbefore they fucked things up?

In essence, yes - lots of things. Firstly, the machine takes a long time to set up, but once set up, remains on until shut off. However, the requirements to maintain the connection to Target Time increase as the disparity of Target Time from what actually happened increases. Finally, each time they enter the past they force that timeline into a different direction simply by being there. So, if they go back to where they've previously been, they'll find that they're not in that timeline.

Can PFAs in target time go back to core time whenever they feel like it? Can the core time technicians bring a PFA back to core time without the PFA'sassistance (e.g., if the PFA is knocked unconscious, tied up, or refusing to go back?)

Currently undefined. I'm at the moment running on the basis that a PFA has some kind of genetic modification combined with an implant which allows them to be tracked through time (using Tachyon Flange Rays, obviously ). That means that a PFA can be recovered at any time - or at least at any time a Ref is available to go find them and drag them back.

If there's a feature of the historical period that OOC historians still debate over, then who decides which version is canon in target time? If for some reason you wanted to have an event where target time involved Richard III, who wouldhave the final say onwhether he was reallya crazy hunchbacked child-killer- the person playing him, or the refs?

The player, with extensive input from the Refs. We'd give people all the info that was available on the character, but then leave it up to the player to portray them. After all, the Curse of History means that in most cases we know next-to-nothing about the personalities of historical figures. It's best if we leave this in players' hands, and let them run with it as they will.

A potential issue here is: what do you do if someone has strong OOCfeelings one way or another about the existence of the Christian God and whether he chose to manifest himself to Constantine? Ditto for anything else involving real world religious events. I'm not saying you're necessarily likely to have this issue come up in play- it's hard to say, since it's not something I've ever seen a larp attempt before.

Again, we leave this to the players. In this specific case, even many Christians believe that Constantine made his decision based upon the makeup of his army and the known effect of religion upon armies in the period. I'd run with the majority viewpoint where possible, and religious issues are the players' problem, not mine.
I agree, though, its not something I've ever seen a larp attempt before either - and if it makes someone think again about something they've always assumed to be true, all to the better.

So, will it be mostly crew who end up playing IC servants, slaves, etc (I'm not saying that playing a slave can't be fun, but it seems likely that most people are more likely to want to play nobles).

Something else to bear in mind is that the range of interesting female roles may be somewhat limited- there are lots of interesting female historical figures (you've mentioned Cleopatra and Emma of Hereford), but in general it seems likely that the interesting male roles will outnumber the interesting female roles. This isn't as big an issue as it would be if the entire event was set in target time (since women who feel like playing something combatty can always play a chief security guard or something), but it may be something to bear in mind.

Basically, yes, people will get the chance to play the Important People from a historical period if they so wish. It's worth bearing in mind, though, that despite history mainly featuring men (in Europe at least), humankind remains 50% women all through history. A lot of women are out there that the androcentric historians missed out, and those are all up for grabs for the female larper. In many periods of history women were very powerful, if often ignored by historians (Glyndwr's Wales, for example), and this would give them the opportunity to shine.



PD - Brother Farael of the Ordo Dictum Dominus
EOS - Some Raggard Scum, previously Some Arimin Scum
6P - System creator (now retired), Andrei Treune of Clan Suner (for the moment)
RL - Will Robinson
Post #10377
Posted Sunday, August 13, 2006 1:59 AM
Prodigal

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chalicier (8/13/2006)

Basically, yes, people will get the chance to play the Important People from a historical period if they so wish. It's worth bearing in mind, though, that despite history mainly featuring men (in Europe at least), humankind remains 50% women all through history. A lot of women are out there that the androcentric historians missed out, and those are all up for grabs for the female larper. In many periods of history women were very powerful, if often ignored by historians (Glyndwr's Wales, for example), and this would give them the opportunity to shine.

  Oh yeah- I'm not saying that it's impossible for a female larper to play an interesting character in a historically accurate larp.  There are all kinds of interesting historical female roles.  You can be the power behind the throne, a tyrannical housekeeper, a crafter, a witch, a pickpocket, a servant who's having an affair with a bored aristocrat...  The thing that bugs me slightly is that male larpers can play all those parts too, *in addition* to playing roles like the pope, the general of the armed forces, the disgraced navy captain, the county court judge, the local rabbi, the bodyguard, the explorer, the Prime Minister, the scribe, the famous scientist, etc etc.  Obviously there are occasional famous exceptions to these things- Boudica, for example, is remembered as a war leader- but the exceptions tend to be famous for being exceptions.  I think that a much smaller number of people would remember who Boudica was if she had been male- she's famous precisely because she seems unusual to us.  This being the case, it doesn't make an awful lot of sense to have every other female larper playing one of the exceptions to the rule- wouldn't that lead to a situation that feels just as weird as a realistic Tudor setting where every other character is a firm atheist?

  Let's take the example you used of Actium.  Cleopatra is a great part, no doubt about it (not that I'd want to play her- I couldn't pull it off.  I know people who could, though.)  But she's likely to be the only overtly political female character there, no matter how much backstage scheming there is for women to get involved with.  And I wouldn't expect there to be any scope for playing a female combat character in that setting (sudden visions of Cleopatra attacking people wielding a larpsafe asp...)

  In summary- I don't think that historical accuracy condemns female larpers to playing Third Fishwife on the Right- but it does restrict their options to some extent, and I don't think that's an easy thing to work around.  Perhaps there's not really anything anyone can do about this other than warn people at the character creation stage.  I suppose you could allow female larpers to play male characters (perhaps insist on a small goatee as a minimum physrep?) -but in many cases the result is likely to be unconvincing.

chalicier (8/13/2006)
[quote]
Currently undefined. I'm at the moment running on the basis that a PFA has some kind of genetic modification combined with an implant which allows them to be tracked through time (using Tachyon Flange Rays, obviously ). That means that a PFA can be recovered at any time - or at least at any time a Ref is available to go find them and drag them back.

  Would the PFAs be able to communicate with Core Time while they're in Target Time?  If so, would they need a special communicator for this, or would it be done via another implant?  If it's very easy to recover PFAs, then it becomes almost impossible for Target Time characters to kill them, hold them as hostages, torture them, etc (especially since the Target Time characters have no way of knowing about potential limitations of the retrieval technology, in order to incorporate this into their strategies).


  WARNING: the information above may have been subjected to dangerously high levels of ignorance.

OOC (and on Pagga): Carrie
Post #10378
Posted Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:16 PM
Wag

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Sudden Thread Necromancy!
I hadn't noticed that there had been a response 3 months ago...

nesciomancer (8/13/2006)
In summary- I don't think that historical accuracy condemns female larpers to playing Third Fishwife on the Right- but it does restrict their options to some extent, and I don't thinkthat's an easy thing to work around. Perhaps there's not really anything anyone can do about this other than warn people at the character creation stage. I suppose you could allow female larpers to play male characters (perhaps insist on a small goatee as a minimum physrep?) -but in many cases the result is likely to be unconvincing.

Yeah. Unfortunately it's something we can't do much about - the mistreatment of women by a large number of generations is not something that LRP is here to undo. I think the best option would be to make Core Time entirely without gender bias, and thus make the problems of gender role something that helps establish the distinction between the two Time Zones.

Would the PFAs b