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Heroic Knight
 
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In an effort not to derail the froth thread  I think that we can agree that on the plain stats the Eldriss look pretty nails, particularly the warriors. That said, I'm not particularly worried that they'll be massively unbalancing. We've had everything from Warphounds to massively powered up corrupted people as PCs (did anyone work out how many hits Jiggs was on before he went?) without it causing OC issues or a queue of people asking the warp gods for rope-o-power The key balancer for the Eldriss isn't going to be raw mechanics but the restrictions on their behaviour. They're the only PC type with constraints on how they roleplay the character and the warriors particularly have to be very careful not to go mental and get themselves killed. If people don't stay within those restrictions I can't see the other Eldriss being very forgiving to anyone who strays after being exposed to all the warp wierdness that's knocking around... They're also an occupying force and I can hardly see everyone else welcoming them with open arms so the PvP dynamic is going to change and unless the Eldriss end up in the majority they're going to be out in the cold to a certian extent especially as the existing PCs are the ones with all the useful info. One other thing that may not have been clear in the document. Everyone else gets 4 RP every event they survive no questions asked - just getting back alive is impressive enough to those back home. Eldriss society expects Eldriss to survive so Eldriss PCs will have to complete their assigned mission sucessfully, efficently and probably with a full mission report if they want the full 4...
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Champion
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Chris pretty much covers the power issue. Also note that Eldriss are Psioncally weak. It is worth emphasising that Eldriss players will have a lot to cope with and if you take say, a Warrior just to be the tough guy and beat on people, you will find yourself not just constantly looking over your shoulder at the natives, but also subject to other Eldriss disapproval, such as the Command-Structure.
Another thing is that Eldriss Pcs may have slightly different missions, so plenty of communication (and possible interest-conflict) might have to occur. Edlriss Pcs will need to work quite hard for Rp.
When I flesh out the section for the new Rulebook hopefully the Eldriss dedication to going about things in a smart and calculated way will come through.
The Life progression chart is long established and a)it would be cheap of me to change it now and b)it works for me. 
(perhaps I will add the following in some form)
The idea of the Warrior progression being in the later phase is that the Eldriss species and society is not innately an aggression-based one, but one of learning, creativity and production.
A Warrior is still largely only as good as the technology they rely on, but more importantly as they have long experience, they have understanding of what they fight for. This makes them dedicated, brave, focused and above all, full of conviction.
The Eldriss have a long-established civilisation and do not have military coups or civil wars.
You only have to look at any human society that engenders child or youth soldiers, lacking experience and knowledge of life other than violence they often become the most brutal, impressionable, often criminal, destructive of forces wherever they are.
A galaxy-spanning society would be unsustainable with the capacity for violence in the hands of un/low educated, unrounded individuals of a society. All that said, the capacity to defend yourself is less and less about face-to-face brawn in technological civilisation, as we all know. Whilst Warriors play a specific role in war, others are quite capable of pulling the triggers so-to-speak.
The fact that their change to Warrior 'clouds' some of the technical details they might have learned previously as Scholars, for me is a minor issue.
My specific thoughts on the mechanics of this are that the knowledge isn't totally lost or wiped, but is just difficult to retrieve in the current Warrior mental/bio-chemical state. Hence when they move to Explorer, they regain a fuller clarity on their life experiences as they look back (including all the Skills they have accrued), enabling them to uncover what they feel they or Eldriss society lacks and go search it out - hence the name. In this respect they return to a state similar to Scholar, but with some superior faculties and some of the toughness of the Warrior.
The reason this does not make them automatic leaders of society, is that they are allowed to follow their own burning desires more than another caste would be - they are the Eldriss who may decide to pursue some obscure myth or legend and vanish into deep space for ten years. Note that they aren't a current PC option for this very reason.
So, please don't judge the Warrior caste by the harshness of last event - that was their mission and they carried it out. They are not Beserker Killing Machines - they are very smart, long-experienced individuals, straining to keep control of their new Pitbull Beserker Killing Machine bodies. Is it any wonder they can't concentrate on Arcane Engineering Skills?
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- Come to Riftworld:the sun never shines, tomorrow is not a better day, but you can drink and swear all you like. That's when we attack.-
"We make ritual noise, we weave the fabric of dreams..."
Bugger it, I was supposed to be having a break from this stuff...oh well....
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Wag
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| That sounds good, thanks for the clarifications Fain2 (9/30/2009)They are not Beserker Killing Machines Apart from when they are.  I remember Diviner Intervention, I was one of the victims, so
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- M&M: Miss Emily Mortimer
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Heroic Knight
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Sarah (9/30/2009)
That sounds good, thanks for the clarifications Fain2 (9/30/2009)They are not Beserker Killing Machines Apart from when they are. I remember Diviner Intervention, I was one of the victims, so Like it says, they're not quite so rational when it comes to the Empire and those nano-swarm recordings had you down as the prime colaborator at least in their somewhat biased eyes
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Wag
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| Meh, we collaborated by standing around is all... Back to the point, my main concern is that when we have had combat tough PCs before the result has been that monsters are upstatted to challenge them, which become deadly for everyone else.
- _____________________________________________________
- Riftworld:
Lyria; Morgan Doosh; 'Spanners'; Tamarind of Ruunar - Artificer: Lady Evron (Survivor!)
- M&M: Miss Emily Mortimer
- Blood Red Roses: Miss Audhild Godwinson
- Crusades: Jumanah Amal
- Odyssey: Julia Tiberillus, 'Ridea', of the Cruentus Anatidae
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Wag
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| I believe everyone stood around watching, due to the large imperial assault cannon pointed at us. However, Lyria then tried to reconstruct the social frame to justify our behaviour by saying 'he deserved it' over the body (not knowing about their comlink / micro-swarm), which wound the Eldriss up *somewhat.*
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Wag
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The Eldriss seem like the classic case of 'overpowered, but balanced by heavy roleplay restrictions and the need to follow chain of command.' Reminds me of the Tremere.  Also they are going to depend on 'native guides' who actually know what's going on (wonder if they will ask ketta for a survival guide). Otherwise, they are going to struggle the face them they meet a pack of spined wolves. Also from a game / play balance point of view, all the eldriss PCs will be 20 point characters, where as some of the PCs have more than that (even if you take away their energy weapons). The inflitrator characters certainly add a lot of intrigue and paranoria, (like the human form cylons in BS:G). It could also result in some odd alliances. I don't imagine the Darker Angels are going to give up all their plasma guns without a fight, which suddenly makes them allies of any other resistance fighters. I'm not sure how the additional PvP layer will turn out - it could work really well, or it could go badly wrong and result in one side casually killing off the other in an unsatisfying way. The natives might decide to 'triage kill' the Eldriss PCs at the first possible chance by not healing them. One question i have based on the draft Eldriss rules. If an Eldriss inflitrator pretends to be a psi using culture, do they get access to psi? I can see Eldriss Defenders could be a bit strange. Also, won't the westlitside mindlink make the Eldriss stand out?
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Heroic Knight
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Nath (9/30/2009)
One question i have based on the draft Eldriss rules. If an Eldriss inflitrator pretends to be a psi using culture, do they get access to psi? I can see Eldriss Defenders could be a bit strange. Also, won't the westlitside mindlink make the Eldriss stand out? I can't check the doc at work but I seem to recall that Infiltrators were Mambas or East Litsiders only - no Westers and no Nanos.
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Initiate
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After looking over the Eldriss stats, I'm not too concerned about their power-level vs. that of other PC's. Against other PC's they really can't afford to start anything because it will lead to the 'first impression' of them being "what a bunch of tossers" and after that point there will form a gulf between Eldriss and the other PC's which will end up turning into a pitched battle which the Eldriss (admittedly with a lot of kills) will lose due to numbers.
The only thing I'm wondering about as a Xadacian is what commands position towards them will be because that will significantly impact our opinions of them. If they say it's open season on Eldriss then the Jaegers will have the chin-straps six feet under before nightfall, however if command say the Eldriss are to be assisted I think any human vs PC Eldriss fight will end with a PC human win.
Maelstrom - Bertrand Calvet (Deputy Manager of the Tuille Traders)
Riftworld - Cpl. Ben "Wolfie" Wolfman (Stormtrooper and incinerator of friends)
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Squire
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windspear (9/30/2009)
If they say it's open season on Eldriss then the Jaegers will have the chin-straps six feet under before nightfall
Pfffft! Chinstraps! Nice shot sah!
I also have to say that I agree with his analysis. They may get cheap skills but 4 hits a loc or not if they don't have the armour they will drop like a sack of shit. Mesh is all well and good but that is still one point of damage from a stub rifle. There will be (probably) more native PC's than Eldriss. This means that it comes down to weight of numbers and on that side the Humans will win. In regards to skewing the combat I don't think it will do. Sure the Eldriss will have a little more staying power against the normal weapons but after seeing what happened in a couple of combats back there it seems like the players could use it. Bear in mind they will drop like anyone else to fatal calls.
True an Eldriss warrior with a concissuon cannon could drop pretty much the whole camp if he wanted to but so could a human with a plasma cannon or a rocket cannon if they were lucky. So long as the background gives us some ability to roleplay and not have the military types have to shoot the Eldriss in the back of the head the second their back is turned all should be fine.
My two pence worth.
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PD: Carlo Wallace, House Debrynn, Mill-enese colony but still Flembic damnit!
RL: David Peck, Norwich.
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