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Champion
 
Group: Game Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:29 PM
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| When the day comes that we are beating crew away with sticks we can think about charging for it,but for now we struggle sometimes to fill our crew spaces. As Joe said crew are sacrificing the chance to play. You are right in one aspect that elements of crewing can seem a hobby, but that is not the case for everyone. I ref at LT and am one of the organisers for EOS and I do this because I get as much or almost as much enjoyment out of it as I do playing. That is not the case for everyone, and some people don;t enjoy it at all at which point they are doing it not as a hobby in itslef, but to put back into the hobby, at which point charging them is not entirely fair. Stu
RL: Stuart Maher
PD: Stuart Maher in a frock coat
LT: Stuart maher in orange hi-vis
Omega: Stuart Maher in a rat mask
BUTT: Stuart Maher in various crap costumes
EOS: Stuart Maher writing plot EOS - Book now, thank me later. I was going to copyright my posts... but then remembered this is an LRP forum!
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Cold Water and Brass Tacks
Group: Basic Members
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| Charging crew always seems tantamount to charging people to work for you. Its not financially neccessary, Maelstrom dont do it ferinstance, quite the opposite (less im really wrong)... CP dont really charge crew but there is an expectation to mopnster but thats part of the event and the attraction. Frankly if your running a commercial company and charge folk to crew then you're making profit off volunteers which is sucky behaviour.
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Wag
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:33 PM
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Flannel (10/7/2008)
Charging crew always seems tantamount to charging people to work for you.
That's pretty much the way I see it, however it's a very different kettle of fish if you're a small non-profit making LRP group.
Maelstrom dont do it ferinstance, quite the opposite (less im really wrong)...
We don't charge crew for their tickets and we provide their food. If they're part of the ref, god or set-up team (pretty much anyone but people just NPCing) then we also pay their travel expenses. However it really is a very different kettle of fish for us. Comparing Maelstrom to anything other than CP or LT is not really meaningful in financial terms.
Frankly if your running a commercial company and charge folk to crew then you're making profit off volunteers which is sucky behaviour.
All PD profits are made off volunteers. If I didn't have crew volunteering their time to run the events, then I couldn't run the events, hence I couldn't make any profits. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your sentiment, but I think you have to be very careful about how you phrase these things so that you're as accurate as possible. All commercial LRP that I am aware of (I'd be interested to know how Caine's LRP in a European Castle thing worked) makes profit from the volunteers.
In the end is there a fundamental difference between making from people's time or their money? I think there is, but it's a subtle one.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Champion
Group: Basic Members
Last Login: Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:27 PM
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Back to the original topic.
If your club is struggling financially, then there are only 3 ways to increase your profits (or reduce your losses) - increase your prices, increase your sales, and/or reduce your costs.
Some examples of these have already been mentioned, here's a few more.
Increase your prices
This is the most obvious way to make more money, and is also the one that tends to attract most criticism. However, many small clubs charge ridiculously low prices for what they're offering, making their 'product' look cheap. By increasing the price to a more realistic level you may have the effect of making players value what you are providing.
Increase your sales
Recruit more players and/or run games more frequently. One way to do this is to increase the range of games you run - different genres, different lengths, different styles of game, etc.
Reduce your costs
Following on from the last suggestion, some games are cheaper to run than others. The money you make on these can be used to offset more expensive games. One day events can be held on public land for free. Paying to use a pub function room for a tavern night? - shop around and find one that welcomes the increased sale of beer midweek. If you're buying weapons /costumes, consider making your own or doing a deal with a trader for bulk orders.
I'm sure there are lots of other examples that fall under one or more of these headings. Have a look at your own accounts (you do keep accounts, right?) and see what changes will work for your club. And remember to talk the options through with your members before making any decisions.
____________________
"Fantasy is the artificial sweetener upon the poisoned cake of materialism." - R. J. Stewart
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Knight
Group: Basic Members
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| We trade and support a few small systems, when we trade we don't pay for a pitch as often we prob don't cover diesel, we help out by sometimes crewing, loaning tents and other equipment, donating kit and props, we have also helped a bit on the marketing front. In return we get orders for bespoke armour and costume, more so than at a big event where the tendency is to shop off the peg. I would encourage small systems to approach traders, specially if they are local and see if you can arrange a recripal (sp) arrangement. And remember the more players and systems in LRP the better for everyone inc traders! Oh just a word of advice, turned up years ago to a 50 player event, 8 traders! don't think any of us went back!
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Apprentice
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Matt Pennington (10/7/2008)
I'd be interested to know how Caine's LRP in a European Castle thing worked
Not a lot to say really Matt, we got an organiser he gave us a price and we divided it up between the 12 of us, it came to just under £1800 each for four days, and was it worth it, honestly it was worth every penny.
As an aside we did look at this, but don't do James Bond (and yes it was a tad TOO expensive!)
http://www.thebluefish.com/module_popup.php?News_ID=141
But it worked for someone, LRP in all but name?
Since opening the American office of Bluefish Concierge in 2001, Sims has arranged hundreds of experiences and arranged entrance to countless clubs and events around the world, including creating a stirring fantasy for a James Bond wannabe complete with a staged kidnapping by a devilish villainess and an eventual rescue by actors playing Navy Seals. The only thing that wasn't make believe was the cost: US$250,000.
Interestingly enough though the firm filed for bankruptcy last year (maybe there really is no money in LRP!!)
Caine
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Wag
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Last Login: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:33 PM
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Caine (10/7/2008)
Not a lot to say really Matt, we got an organiser he gave us a price and we divided it up between the 12 of us, it came to just under £1800 each for four days, and was it worth it, honestly it was worth every penny.
I was mostly interested to know if the crew got paid wages... Such would be a "fully" commercial model for LRP. Although of course paying people for one weekend's work is hardly a "job" even if cash in hand is useful to some people.
I remember you talking about the event at the time, it sounded stunning, it's a real shame there aren't more games about like that. And it's fucking tragic that the people who ran it aren't being praised to the nines and lauded for pulling off something so cool. I do think they are wrong to worry so much about criticism, I think the hobby has moved on a LOT in that regard over the last five years or so, but I could be wrong. No-one has ever criticized our commercial stance and I'm very open about being "in it for the money".
I'm definitely interested in looking at the possibilities presented by "full price" LRP, but it's not my market at the moment. Have a few cool ideas though... One day, one day... 
When I hear about some of the games being run on the continent it does make my head spin. Games set on boats or aeroplanes... Very cool.
History is an important source for LRP. Along with other works of fiction.
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Champion
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Just a quick note - DUTT is and has been making a tidy profit for quite a while now, and we don't expect that to change.
Ias
Maelstrom: Then: Regimental Sergeant Major Mdjai, Havocstan Army
Now: "?"
DUTT: Then: Commander J.W. Cranstan, Durholme City Guard
Now: Justice
RL: Ias
I was going to run for parliament, because I want to make the world a better place, but I ran into some old friends and went out for a beer instead.
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