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Prodigal
 
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| All valid points in a general sense, but as this discussion is about global warming the practises of Oil co's is central- do we really have to just accept that they're corrupt and allowed to drive us to extinction in their search for profit? Don't gov'ts have a responsibility to see past the next election- politics isn't supposed to be seen as a short term job (though obviously it actually is). If politicians looked past party (at least on global issues) it wouldn't affect voting anyway (as policy wouldn't change after a change of Gov't). I'm happy to accept greed as part of human nature (hell, it's certainly part of mine) but this short sighted and totally excessive greed is insane.
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Wag
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Prodigal
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Yet in the North(of the earth, not the UK) the section of society who experience the higher levels of obesity are the poor, they tend to eat high fat/sugar content foods, because you get more for your money while fresh fruit and veg are relatively highly priced (on a fullness for cost basis). Most people would rather be not hungry than healthy.
If you combine that with the stupid hours people are forced to work to achieve any kind of living standard and you have a culture living on "eat on the move" snacks and bulked out crap made from the left overs of the more expensive produce.
So again (in my opinion) a problem caused mainly by corporate greed.
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Prodigal
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Sorry, should have added this:
I'm obese- I know I am- mainly as a result of my genes (I'm was never going to be marathon runner) and my childhood, growing up in a household with a very low income (parents insisted on working, but weren't professionally qualified, so stuck in low paid jobs), eating the sort of foods I outlined earlier and never quite feeling like I'd had enough to eat.
As a result my impulse as an adult is eat until I'm full and so I spend my life worrying about what I eat - now I can afford to eat healthily, I tend to, and anyone who's seen my kids will tell you they have an obviously healthy diet (even though Caitie is a veggie).
My point is (not actually some sort of whingy self examination) that we have several generations of people with similar experiences and tackling it will be a massive problem- probably not made easier by skinny people and their obsession with size and their exclusion of any who isn't their ideal (try buying fashionable clothes that are bigger than XL)
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Champion
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Andy Rimmer (5/17/2008)
Yet in the North(of the earth, not the UK) the section of society who experience the higher levels of obesity are the poor, they tend to eat high fat/sugar content foods, because you get more for your money while fresh fruit and veg are relatively highly priced (on a fullness for cost basis). Most people would rather be not hungry than healthy.
I'm going to have to disagree with you in terms of cost there. If you live on nothing but grains then sure (though they're getting alot more expensive now), fruit and veg are comparatively more expensive, but compared to dairy, meat, take-away food and ready meals its a hell of a lot cheaper to eat fresh fruit and veg - especially if you buy it from a greengrocer rather than a supermarket (it sounds crazy, but veg is one thing that small local shops seem to be cheaper for)
If you combine that with the stupid hours people are forced to work to achieve any kind of living standard and you have a culture living on "eat on the move" snacks and bulked out crap made from the left overs of the more expensive produce.
So again (in my opinion) a problem caused mainly by corporate greed.
Here I agree with you. Preparing food is time consuming - its a lot easier to eat processed crap, but you pay for the convenience.
However go back 100 years and people worked longer hours for less money while cooking everything from scratch and having no useful labour saving gadgets, so it certainly can't be the only factor. I think its alot to do with how people don't learn to cook any more, and see it as a chore rather than a skill. That and the power of marketing telling people that there's no need to cook when they can buy everything ready prepared.
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Wag
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Andy Rimmer (5/17/2008)
mainly as a result of my genes
I think this is an important point that people often lose sight of when they are talking about famines. Probably some of the people are suffering malnutrition, but there seems to be very little effort put in to checking whether the majority simply have "thin genes". The best we can do for these people is to persuade people with fat genes to donate lots of semen and eggs so that the next generation won't be similarly afflicted (during the colonial period these sorts of humanitarian efforts were commonplace, but unfortunately "big government" has put its foot down and it's all stuffed up with red tape now).
Marios
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Prodigal
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Shven (5/17/2008) If you live on nothing but grains then sure (though they're getting alot more expensive now), fruit and veg are comparatively more expensive, but compared to dairy, meat, take-away food and ready meals its a hell of a lot cheaper to eat fresh fruit and veg - especially if you buy it from a greengrocer rather than a supermarket (it sounds crazy, but veg is one thing that small local shops seem to be cheaper for)
[b]Totally right, except for what I'll call the "MSG factor" (even though it isn't always MSG)- the healthy food -especially grain and pulses will fill you up more effectively, but short term the fatty sugary stuff makes you feel more full, and doesn't require much effort (another issue) so for someone with kids it seems more cost effective - because the kids aren't still hungry after the meal, even though an hour later they're pestering for more sweets, at least you can send them packing, tell yourself you're a good parent and survive another day.
If you combine that with the stupid hours people are forced to work to achieve any kind of living standard and you have a culture living on "eat on the move" snacks and bulked out crap made from the left overs of the more expensive produce.
So again (in my opinion) a problem caused mainly by corporate greed.
Here I agree with you. Preparing food is time consuming - its a lot easier to eat processed crap, but you pay for the convenience.
However go back 100 years and people worked longer hours for less money while cooking everything from scratch and having no useful labour saving gadgets, so it certainly can't be the only factor. I think its alot to do with how people don't learn to cook any more, and see it as a chore rather than a skill. That and the power of marketing telling people that there's no need to cook when they can buy everything ready prepared.
Again totally right except for one minor detail- the wife/mother tended to stay around the home (often working from home) giving her more time for prep, while dad and the kids went out to work- but I think you're right that young people are being brainwashed into lsong the will to prepare food
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Prodigal
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Marios, an interesting point as you never see pictures of great strapping Nubian types in famine reports.
I've been working with some young people (unnaccompanied asylum seekers)from East Africa- who swear blind that famine is restricted to very localised areas, and that we only see that side of their countries, because their corrupt gov'ts want the the aid to keep coming in. One even went so far as to suggest that the famines were being deliberately maintained!
They left because of the politics, not the lack of food.
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