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Wag
 
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Andy Rimmer (9/26/2006)
Shelford- absolutely, yes it is down to intent.
In which case, why not ditch all those tedious rules books - if it's not about what you actually do, but what you intend to come from it, we can save an awful lot of paper/unnecessary memorising. Rollplay not ruleplay!
Andy Rimmer (9/26/2006)
buying influence or friends in LRP isn't sador wrong, because you say it is.
Surely if it works, then you've just bought off the people who would be making the judgement that it's wrong?
Marios
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Wag
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| There have been a number of excellent events over the years where we have just ditched those tedious rule books and concentrated on role play instead of rule play- usually resulting in very basic rules governing combat and magic, unfortunately once you open the event up to a wider audience, you get some tosser who rule plays and starts looking for ways to take the piss- I think you referred to it as exploiting holes in the system- and before you know it you're writing version 4 of a 500 page rule system just to police the game and having debates about the finer points of IC and OC and what constitutes a legal kill etc.
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Heroic Knight
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Marios (9/26/2006)
[quote]In which case, why not ditch all those tedious rules books - if it's not about what you actually do, but what you intend to come from it, we can save an awful lot of paper/unnecessary memorising. Rollplay not ruleplay!
And lo! so it was within the bounds of the Garden of Eden until one day at play, Adam said unto Eve "Bang!" while pointing his finger at her and she, fast of body, moved behind an apple tree claiming that she had ducked out of sight in time. Adam, sure that he had shot her clearly and without the Lord around to adjudicate, decided that if she would ignore what he did, he would therefore ignore what she did. And so it came to pass that when Eve next leapt out with her finger pointed at Adam and cried "Bang!" with gleefull spirit, Adam did smirk in reply and say "You missed".
The Lord did see this and become Wrathfull, "You have eaten of the apple of the tree of cheating, so you shall be cast out from the Garden of Eden, where there are restrictions placed upon your actions to govern the game and tell you what this cheating is."
Adan and Eve looked up at God and said "That doesn't sound too bad", for so they saw that these rules would prove the others action wrong and prevent it recurring. "Oh well then," said the Lord "I guess you'll have to start paying for events as well, then..."*Ahem* That got a bit longer than I had envisaged. In summary: ruleless systems are great until someone is believed to be cheating. Breadth of player base makes that incredibly likely in most systems.
Dave 2 / Man in Blue
LT - Artfiel Macenion Duvall, Knight of Celestial
EOS - Weeping Boar, War Sayer of the Mystwalker Tribe Maelstrom - Tal Rufen, Quicksilver Trading Riftworld - Cpl Caplin San Angelo, 48th Assault Recon
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Wag
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Man in Blue & Marios which 'no rules' LRPs have you been to?
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Heroic Knight
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Shelford (9/27/2006)
Man in Blue & Marios which 'no rules' LRPs have you been to?I dunno about them, but mine was "The School Playground"...
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Insurrection:"Of course, if I used some extra resources I could raise my chances of success to very poor...."
Riftworld: "This? This is not a problem, its a challenge. Now can someone help me open this jar?"
LT: [Not allowed a speaking (or writing) part.]
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Wag
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Shelford (9/27/2006)
Marios which 'no rules' LRPs have you been to?
Small one-off games with handpicked people. There were fun as one-offs but they all looked like they'd come unstuck if they continued to run/expanded to involve more people.
To be clear I don't think they come unstuck because "of teh evil ruleplaying arseholes", merely that the lack of and desire for consistency build up and gaps between different players comprehension of the game expand over time. It's like running a machine without any rivets/screws (or whatever it is that holds machines together) - ok in short bursts, but it's not scalable and if you run it for too long it'll shake itself to bits.
Marios
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Heroic Knight
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Shelford (9/27/2006)
Man in Blue which 'no rules' LRPs have you been to?
I should point out that my analogy (involving people pointing their fingers at each other) was taken directly from School Playground games (as Daniel suggested), but I threw in the Biblical element to point out that the first such incident would have happened many, many years ago. I have played ruleless systems since, but small numbers (less than 20 total - players and crew) and one-off. I can see it falling appart as soon as the numbers are stretched to the point where two players disagree heavily or the timescales are stretched such that the results the players expect based on precedent are contradicted by GM fiat.
Where those limits are is up to discussion.
Dave 2 / Man in Blue
LT - Artfiel Macenion Duvall, Knight of Celestial
EOS - Weeping Boar, War Sayer of the Mystwalker Tribe Maelstrom - Tal Rufen, Quicksilver Trading Riftworld - Cpl Caplin San Angelo, 48th Assault Recon
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Heroic Knight
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Surely in any rulesless / low rules systems you have a Referee to arbitrate where opinions differ? I have never seen a situation like that spiral out of control...
To be honest if your players are in a situation like that where they are disagreeing then you're probably trying to run a soft skill system that needs a few rules. If you're in a traditional low-rules "what you can do you can do" kind of LRP, then it's very rare indeed that it crops up, because it is all hard skills driven.
To follow on from the Eden example given above, if you gave Adam and Eve bb guns or throwing machetes then they would be using hard skills and the argument would never arise...
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